4 ms·

Without racial violence? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/class-action-rcmp-abuse-indigenous-people-certified-1.6076962 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nort

by coryrc 2y ago

Without racial violence? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/class-action-rcmp-abuse-indigenous-people-certified-1.6076962 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/class-action-rcmp-abuse...

skissane 2y ago
It depends on what one is referring to by "racial violence". The US has a long history of race riots, which have led to numerous deaths. While race riots have also happened in Canadian history, they have been far less frequent, and resulted in significantly less deaths. And the disparity remains even if you take into account the difference in size of the population.
- coryrc 2y ago
  If you physically segregate your underclass, they do tend not to "riot" in what I'm assuming you would consider a "race riot". Most deaths from "racial violence" aren't from "rioting" anyway, so focusing on that point is pretty silly, in my opinion.
  - skissane 2y ago
    > If you physically segregate your underclass, they do tend not to "riot" in what I'm assuming you would consider a "race riot" Are you arguing that Canada "physically segregates" its underclass to a greater extent than the US does? I don't think that's actually true.
    - coryrc 2y ago
      https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/41-20-0002/2023004/m-c/m-c01-eng.png https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/41-20-0002/2023004/m-c/m... In 1970 Detroit, the city was 30% black. What comparable city does Canada have?
      - skissane 2y ago
        According to the 2021 Canadian census, Vancouver is now a majority-minority city, 54% non-white. [0] Also, keep in mind that in both Canada and the US, a plurality of the underclass are of European descent: in 2020, the U.S. Census Bureau estimated that 37.2 million Americans were living below the poverty line, of whom 42.7% were non-Hispanic White, 28.0% Hispanic, 22.8% African American, 1.6% Native American, 4.8% Other. [1] (I don't have equivalent figures for Canada at hand, but I expect they will tell a broadly similar story, with European-descended people being the plurality of the Canadian poor.) [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/2021-census-minority-demographics-metro-vancouver-bc-1.6630164 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/2021-census-... [1] https://talkpoverty.org/basics/index.html https://talkpoverty.org/basics/index.html
        coryrc 2y ago
        I said underclass was physically segregated. The US systematically discriminated against black people to form an underclass that shared a racial identity. Neither ethnic nor cultural Chinese in Vancouver are an underclass and have nothing to gain by executing a "race riot". The First Nations people you have so poorly treated are too small a fraction of the population and too dispersed for you to see a "race riot" on par with Los Angeles or Detroit, but the protests are there.
petre 2y ago
I was aware of the abuses agains indigenous Canadians, but it doesn't compare to the US. Maybe not without but certainly less. "Higher numbers of hate crimes targeting a race or an ethnicity (+12% to 1,950 incidents) and a sexual orientation (+12% to 491 incidents) accounted for most of the increase in 2022. In 2022, hate crimes targeting a religion were down 15% from 2021 yet remained above the annual numbers recorded from 2018 to 2020." https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240313/dq240313b-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240313/dq240... Compared to 6,567 in the US during the same year. https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/hate-crime-statistics https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/hate-crime-statistics Per capita values are indeed higher for Canada due to the population difference.
- coryrc 2y ago
  These numbers can also go up if police do their job better and people trust them more and feel it worthwhile to report. Both are law-enforcement-provided, versus crime victim statistical surveys which are more accurate for the number of crimes committed (not just reported); though having their own drawbacks, of course.

by coryrc 2y ago

Without racial violence? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/class-action-rcmp-abuse-indigenous-people-certified-1.6076962 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/class-action-rcmp-abuse...

skissane 2y ago

It depends on what one is referring to by "racial violence". The US has a long history of race riots, which have led to numerous deaths. While race riots have also happened in Canadian history, they have been far less frequent, and resulted in significantly less deaths. And the disparity remains even if you take into account the difference in size of the population.

coryrc 2y ago
If you physically segregate your underclass, they do tend not to "riot" in what I'm assuming you would consider a "race riot". Most deaths from "racial violence" aren't from "rioting" anyway, so focusing on that point is pretty silly, in my opinion.
- skissane 2y ago
  > If you physically segregate your underclass, they do tend not to "riot" in what I'm assuming you would consider a "race riot" Are you arguing that Canada "physically segregates" its underclass to a greater extent than the US does? I don't think that's actually true.
  - coryrc 2y ago
    https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/41-20-0002/2023004/m-c/m-c01-eng.png https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/41-20-0002/2023004/m-c/m... In 1970 Detroit, the city was 30% black. What comparable city does Canada have?
    - skissane 2y ago
      According to the 2021 Canadian census, Vancouver is now a majority-minority city, 54% non-white. [0] Also, keep in mind that in both Canada and the US, a plurality of the underclass are of European descent: in 2020, the U.S. Census Bureau estimated that 37.2 million Americans were living below the poverty line, of whom 42.7% were non-Hispanic White, 28.0% Hispanic, 22.8% African American, 1.6% Native American, 4.8% Other. [1] (I don't have equivalent figures for Canada at hand, but I expect they will tell a broadly similar story, with European-descended people being the plurality of the Canadian poor.) [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/2021-census-minority-demographics-metro-vancouver-bc-1.6630164 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/2021-census-... [1] https://talkpoverty.org/basics/index.html https://talkpoverty.org/basics/index.html
      - coryrc 2y ago
        I said underclass was physically segregated. The US systematically discriminated against black people to form an underclass that shared a racial identity. Neither ethnic nor cultural Chinese in Vancouver are an underclass and have nothing to gain by executing a "race riot". The First Nations people you have so poorly treated are too small a fraction of the population and too dispersed for you to see a "race riot" on par with Los Angeles or Detroit, but the protests are there.

petre 2y ago

I was aware of the abuses agains indigenous Canadians, but it doesn't compare to the US. Maybe not without but certainly less. "Higher numbers of hate crimes targeting a race or an ethnicity (+12% to 1,950 incidents) and a sexual orientation (+12% to 491 incidents) accounted for most of the increase in 2022. In 2022, hate crimes targeting a religion were down 15% from 2021 yet remained above the annual numbers recorded from 2018 to 2020." https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240313/dq240313b-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240313/dq240... Compared to 6,567 in the US during the same year. https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/hate-crime-statistics https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/hate-crime-statistics Per capita values are indeed higher for Canada due to the population difference.

coryrc 2y ago
These numbers can also go up if police do their job better and people trust them more and feel it worthwhile to report. Both are law-enforcement-provided, versus crime victim statistical surveys which are more accurate for the number of crimes committed (not just reported); though having their own drawbacks, of course.