4 ms·

There is huge money in making cheats and this one seems to operate in userspace only. Most cheats and anti-cheats these days are running in lower rings (kernel

There is huge money in making cheats and this one seems to operate in userspace only. Most cheats and anti-cheats these days are running in lower rings (kernel or device driver) I believe there is also hardware cheats but I'm not sure how common those are. EDIT: See "DMA cheats" or "DMA cards"

miffe 2y ago
It's pretty common. Valve is now banning certain keyboards from CS2.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
  What do these keyboards do? Presumably it is something more sophisticated than a key combination macro.
  - wnevets 2y ago
    In this instance one of the things they do is ignore keypresses at certain times > Razer and Wooting’s SOCD features both let players automate switching strafe directions without having to learn the skill. Normally, to switch strafe directions in a first-person shooter, you have to fully release one key before pressing the other. If both are pressed, they cancel each other, and you stand there for a moment until you release one of the keys. SOCD means you don’t need to release a key and you can rapidly tap the A or D key to counter-strafe with little to no effort. [1] [1] https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/20/24224261/valve-counter-strike-2-razer-snap-tap-wooting-socd-ban-kick https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/20/24224261/valve-counter-st...
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
      Huh. That seems like such a weird, minor advantage to attempt to ban. I expect most anyone playing FPS would pick this up naturally. Also seems impossible to ban given the ubiquity of custom keyboards running something like QMK. Those run user code and could send a fake vendor id to the host.
      - wnevets 2y ago
        > Huh. That seems like such a weird, minor advantage to attempt to ban. I expect most anyone playing FPS would pick this up naturally. With a regular keyboard its very possible for a person to not release one key before pressing the other in a tense situation when they have less than 1 second to react. For example even a professional baseball player making millions of dollars can drop a routine fly ball.
      - dvngnt_ 2y ago
        it's the same thing with fighting games. your controller has to be socd compliant
  - alstonite 2y ago
    Essentially the keyboards have software that will allow the user to override keypresses at inhuman speeds. This allows users to switch left/right direction extremely fast, which is very relevant in CS2 due to peeking mechanics. Specifically, if I'm holding A (moving right) then I press D (move left), in most games in I would stop since I now have both keys down. These keyboards automatically raise the A key even if you're still holding it, allowing an immediate swap of momentum.
  - Quarrel 2y ago
    Not really, and valve has also banned these at the macro level. They just allow you to set them up such that when you start strafing (ie moving) in an opposite direction by pushing an opposing key (ie you're holding down "move right" -> "d", but now start holding down "move left" -> "a") that there is no overlap between the "d" and "a" being held down, as some games (CS) punish having both down at the same time. Valves idea is that minimising the time gap as you switch directions, while never having the two keys overlap as pressed, is an important learned skill that novices should not be able to do as cleanly as pros, and have said that keyboards that support this seamless transition will be banned.
  - blargey 2y ago
    It’s actually less sophisticated - it’s merely the choice of what key input is reported when two keys are physically in the down position, simultaneously. “Report last key that was activated” means that rapidly switching/alternating between, say, A and D to switch movement directions is a matter of just pressing the next key instead of coordinating the lifting of the other key. AFAIK this has existed as an autohotkey script for a long time, but it’s so simple a legitimate hardware implementation detail can be another vector, and wouldn’t fit in the “unauthorized software” definition of cheating so needed a separate callout.
- Quarrel 2y ago
  Recent keyboard cheats (ie minimising the learning curve in seamlessly changing direction when strafing) are nothing, and not really what anyone means by hardware cheats. What is meant are PCIe hardware devices that can use DMA to read and write data without being detected by software processes at all. They've been around for quite a while (5+ years?), but I doubt they'll ever get mainstream adoption. They're also used in malware analysis at times.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    If these things get mainstream adoption their PCI IDs just get blacklisted (they do need to register with the system first), or IOMMU configuration will be yet another thing to fingerprint. IIRC, the host CPU has to allow the "evil" PCIe device access to memory, or is that just something that Thunderbolt chips implemented after malware authors used this for insta-unlocks?
    - Hikikomori 2y ago
      They come with custom firmware and pretend to be other hardware like an usb controller or sound card.
      - mschuster91 2y ago
        So what, as soon as these things become mainstream cheating targets, anticheat vendors will force (or "strongly suggest") to hardware manufacturers that every piece of hardware has to have some sort of uncloneable TPM-style module to verify authenticity.
        Hikikomori 2y ago
        They already are in many games where good undetectable cheats are 100$ monthly subscriptions. Anticheat vendors don't have enough pull to pull that off, Microsoft maybe could but most of their effort goes into protections against advesaries other than the computers owner.
  - 2y ago
- uyzstvqs 2y ago
  Funnily enough VAC (CS2 anticheat) is one of the easiest to bypass, and you can do so with certainty that you don't get detected.
Der_Einzige 2y ago
There's also a lot of AI cheats now, which are resistant to most detection methods: https://github.com/Babyhamsta/Aimmy https://github.com/Babyhamsta/Aimmy Several hundred hours of my "the finals" experience have been helped by this :)
- J_Shelby_J 2y ago
  I don’t know what to say. Cool project, but I would be mortified to admit to using this. Cheating in a competitive game is just griefing with self-delusion and extra steps. You’re also going to never be able to have a professional relationship with an athlete or gamer ever again. People who have dumped thousands of hours practicing to get good at something, and you’re proud of cheating them and people like them? Enjoy your s3 emerald skins. I’ve reported your accounts to embark.
  - drdaeman 2y ago
    > People who have dumped thousands of hours practicing to get good at something, and you’re proud of cheating them and people like them? Just as a hypothetical situation - what if one had built a similar tool on their own, or used this as a foundation but trained a new model? Does it count, or are we denying this as a personal growth and limiting it strictly to playing exactly by the book? Alternatively... What if someone has a physical condition that limits their manual dexterity? Is it different from having a physical condition that limits their eyesight and have to wear glasses? I'm trying to draw a line. Or challenge the status quo where the existing line is drawn.
    - endominus 2y ago
      What if someone did not have the physical strength to become a champion cyclist/baseball player, but found a medicinal way to overcome their limitations and achieve peak performance in their field? We've already come to a decisive conclusion on this; steroids are banned in most sporting competitions. Just as cheats are in online games. Just because someone does not have the pure physical ability to compete at the highest level does not give them leeway to cheat.
0x1ch 2y ago
Go to aliexpress. Google cheat cards. They've proliferated pretty heavily in the last couple years. My buddy and I were actually just discussing ring 0 anti cheat circumvention and we started researching these units. Our guess is that the hardware slightly changes every iteration with updated firmware to circumvent general heuristics like HWID.
- ziml77 2y ago
  I hope anyone who actually buys those things to cheat in a multiplayer game gets one so poorly made that it fries their whole system.
  - Workaccount2 2y ago
    Part of me really wants to do this, put a time bomb circuit that fries the PC after x hours of use, and leak them into the supply chain. Not going to do it, too much work, but cheaters ruined sooo many hours of my life. I wonder if there are software dev counter-parts that would build cheats just to soft-brick cheaters PCs...
    - beeboobaa3 2y ago
      You'd be distributing malware and will probably find yourself in legal trouble.

miffe 2y ago

It's pretty common. Valve is now banning certain keyboards from CS2.

0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
What do these keyboards do? Presumably it is something more sophisticated than a key combination macro.
- wnevets 2y ago
  In this instance one of the things they do is ignore keypresses at certain times > Razer and Wooting’s SOCD features both let players automate switching strafe directions without having to learn the skill. Normally, to switch strafe directions in a first-person shooter, you have to fully release one key before pressing the other. If both are pressed, they cancel each other, and you stand there for a moment until you release one of the keys. SOCD means you don’t need to release a key and you can rapidly tap the A or D key to counter-strafe with little to no effort. [1] [1] https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/20/24224261/valve-counter-strike-2-razer-snap-tap-wooting-socd-ban-kick https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/20/24224261/valve-counter-st...
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
    Huh. That seems like such a weird, minor advantage to attempt to ban. I expect most anyone playing FPS would pick this up naturally. Also seems impossible to ban given the ubiquity of custom keyboards running something like QMK. Those run user code and could send a fake vendor id to the host.
    - wnevets 2y ago
      > Huh. That seems like such a weird, minor advantage to attempt to ban. I expect most anyone playing FPS would pick this up naturally. With a regular keyboard its very possible for a person to not release one key before pressing the other in a tense situation when they have less than 1 second to react. For example even a professional baseball player making millions of dollars can drop a routine fly ball.
    - dvngnt_ 2y ago
      it's the same thing with fighting games. your controller has to be socd compliant
- alstonite 2y ago
  Essentially the keyboards have software that will allow the user to override keypresses at inhuman speeds. This allows users to switch left/right direction extremely fast, which is very relevant in CS2 due to peeking mechanics. Specifically, if I'm holding A (moving right) then I press D (move left), in most games in I would stop since I now have both keys down. These keyboards automatically raise the A key even if you're still holding it, allowing an immediate swap of momentum.
- Quarrel 2y ago
  Not really, and valve has also banned these at the macro level. They just allow you to set them up such that when you start strafing (ie moving) in an opposite direction by pushing an opposing key (ie you're holding down "move right" -> "d", but now start holding down "move left" -> "a") that there is no overlap between the "d" and "a" being held down, as some games (CS) punish having both down at the same time. Valves idea is that minimising the time gap as you switch directions, while never having the two keys overlap as pressed, is an important learned skill that novices should not be able to do as cleanly as pros, and have said that keyboards that support this seamless transition will be banned.
- blargey 2y ago
  It’s actually less sophisticated - it’s merely the choice of what key input is reported when two keys are physically in the down position, simultaneously. “Report last key that was activated” means that rapidly switching/alternating between, say, A and D to switch movement directions is a matter of just pressing the next key instead of coordinating the lifting of the other key. AFAIK this has existed as an autohotkey script for a long time, but it’s so simple a legitimate hardware implementation detail can be another vector, and wouldn’t fit in the “unauthorized software” definition of cheating so needed a separate callout.
Quarrel 2y ago
Recent keyboard cheats (ie minimising the learning curve in seamlessly changing direction when strafing) are nothing, and not really what anyone means by hardware cheats. What is meant are PCIe hardware devices that can use DMA to read and write data without being detected by software processes at all. They've been around for quite a while (5+ years?), but I doubt they'll ever get mainstream adoption. They're also used in malware analysis at times.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  If these things get mainstream adoption their PCI IDs just get blacklisted (they do need to register with the system first), or IOMMU configuration will be yet another thing to fingerprint. IIRC, the host CPU has to allow the "evil" PCIe device access to memory, or is that just something that Thunderbolt chips implemented after malware authors used this for insta-unlocks?
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    They come with custom firmware and pretend to be other hardware like an usb controller or sound card.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      So what, as soon as these things become mainstream cheating targets, anticheat vendors will force (or "strongly suggest") to hardware manufacturers that every piece of hardware has to have some sort of uncloneable TPM-style module to verify authenticity.
      - Hikikomori 2y ago
        They already are in many games where good undetectable cheats are 100$ monthly subscriptions. Anticheat vendors don't have enough pull to pull that off, Microsoft maybe could but most of their effort goes into protections against advesaries other than the computers owner.
- 2y ago
uyzstvqs 2y ago
Funnily enough VAC (CS2 anticheat) is one of the easiest to bypass, and you can do so with certainty that you don't get detected.

Der_Einzige 2y ago

There's also a lot of AI cheats now, which are resistant to most detection methods: https://github.com/Babyhamsta/Aimmy https://github.com/Babyhamsta/Aimmy Several hundred hours of my "the finals" experience have been helped by this :)

J_Shelby_J 2y ago
I don’t know what to say. Cool project, but I would be mortified to admit to using this. Cheating in a competitive game is just griefing with self-delusion and extra steps. You’re also going to never be able to have a professional relationship with an athlete or gamer ever again. People who have dumped thousands of hours practicing to get good at something, and you’re proud of cheating them and people like them? Enjoy your s3 emerald skins. I’ve reported your accounts to embark.
- drdaeman 2y ago
  > People who have dumped thousands of hours practicing to get good at something, and you’re proud of cheating them and people like them? Just as a hypothetical situation - what if one had built a similar tool on their own, or used this as a foundation but trained a new model? Does it count, or are we denying this as a personal growth and limiting it strictly to playing exactly by the book? Alternatively... What if someone has a physical condition that limits their manual dexterity? Is it different from having a physical condition that limits their eyesight and have to wear glasses? I'm trying to draw a line. Or challenge the status quo where the existing line is drawn.
  - endominus 2y ago
    What if someone did not have the physical strength to become a champion cyclist/baseball player, but found a medicinal way to overcome their limitations and achieve peak performance in their field? We've already come to a decisive conclusion on this; steroids are banned in most sporting competitions. Just as cheats are in online games. Just because someone does not have the pure physical ability to compete at the highest level does not give them leeway to cheat.

0x1ch 2y ago

Go to aliexpress. Google cheat cards. They've proliferated pretty heavily in the last couple years. My buddy and I were actually just discussing ring 0 anti cheat circumvention and we started researching these units. Our guess is that the hardware slightly changes every iteration with updated firmware to circumvent general heuristics like HWID.

ziml77 2y ago
I hope anyone who actually buys those things to cheat in a multiplayer game gets one so poorly made that it fries their whole system.
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  Part of me really wants to do this, put a time bomb circuit that fries the PC after x hours of use, and leak them into the supply chain. Not going to do it, too much work, but cheaters ruined sooo many hours of my life. I wonder if there are software dev counter-parts that would build cheats just to soft-brick cheaters PCs...
  - beeboobaa3 2y ago
    You'd be distributing malware and will probably find yourself in legal trouble.