4 ms·

Ozempic maker defends high U.S. price: It's 'helping' reduce the cost of obesity

10 points by heavyset_go 2y ago

pfdietz 2y ago
There's a poor man's Ozempic: metformin. It causes weight loss, and they seem to have figured out why. It stimulates the production of the signaling molecule "Lac-Phe" (N-lactoyl phenylalanine), which is normally produced in cells after high intensity exercise, and reduces appetite. Metformin is a small, simple molecule that has long fallen out of patent, and is available very cheaply. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Phe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Phe https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2024/03/metformin-weight-diabetes.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2024/03/metformin-wei... https://www.nature.com/articles/s42255-024-00999-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s42255-024-00999-9
- tssva 2y ago
  Metformin has been the 1st choice for treatment of type 2 diabetes for decades. Countless millions have taken it daily for many years. Although I’m sure some lose weight taking the impact is not near as significant or wide spread as glp-1s. I have taken it for 20 years and never lost weight while on it. If there was significant weight loss across a large range of those taking it you would have heard a lot more about metformin being used for weight loss. I have taken Mounjaro since February and have experienced significant weight loss and my A1C has fallen to 5.3 which is significantly lower than on metformin alone or in combination with other type 2 medications.
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    My personal experience with metformin was it didn't cause weight loss, until I deliberately also tried diet (< 100 g net carbs per day) and exercise (~4 miles walking/day). That ended up being much easier to stick to than I had previously found it to be, and has caused me to slowly but steadily lose 25 pounds since May.
    - tssva 2y ago
      That reads to me that you have lost weight due to a combination of diet and exercise. Not necessarily metformin.
      - pfdietz 2y ago
        The key point was that it was very weirdly easy, compared to previous efforts, and I credit metformin (1000 mg/day) for that.
- sebastiangula 2y ago
  Unfortunately, Metformin gives me a brain fog that isn’t acceptable while having an engineering role. Maybe it has an interaction with Vortioxetine, I don’t know.
- loeg 2y ago
  Also worth remembering that Metformin has an even higher GI distress side effect rate than GLP-1 drugs. Like, probably most people that take it get some bad GI side effects. It's not a great replacement for GLP-1 drugs.
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    The only significant effect I've noticed is some constipation, and that's solved by psyllium fiber supplements (not the ones that also contain a separate laxative, mind you). Taken in capsule form these have no effect on taste or texture of food or drink.
    - loeg 2y ago
      I'm glad side effects are mild for you, but obviously a single anecdote doesn't contradict data from millions of other users.
      - pfdietz 2y ago
        Yes, of course. I wouldn't want to misrepresent a personal anecdote as anything more than what it is.
- glp1guide 2y ago
  While metformin is cheaper, I find that only fairly wealthy "longevity" maximizers have heard of it. Also, it's far less effective than GLP1 RAs at weight loss, which is what most people want.
Eumenes 2y ago
> “If you look at just the cost of obesity in the U.S., it’s a disease that costs Americans more than $400 billion a year,” Lars Fruergaard Jørgensen said in an interview on “NBC Nightly News.” OK, the Iraq war cost half that. Lets invade Denmark to beat obesity.
andrewmcwatters 2y ago
As soon as I read that article about how Ozempic seems to age your skin dramatically, I felt like the wind had basically been taken out of the drug. Just count your calories and work on developing good habits.
glp1guide 2y ago
Welp, water is wet. It won't be up to Novo Nordisk to reduce the cost of GLP1 RAs -- it will be up to other entrants into the market (that said, there are worryingly few), and huge companies taking up manufacturing of GLP1s and similar compounds. At this point, companies partnering with compounding pharmacies might hit mainstream (more than it already has) and be the go-to way to get GLP1 RAs. There's already a Liraglutide (Victoza/Saxenda) generic: https://glp1.guide/content/victoza-generic-hits-the-market https://glp1.guide/content/victoza-generic-hits-the-market Though I've seen some anecdotal reports that the generic was worse than regular Victoza.

10 points by heavyset_go 2y ago

There's a poor man's Ozempic: metformin. It causes weight loss, and they seem to have figured out why. It stimulates the production of the signaling molecule "Lac-Phe" (N-lactoyl phenylalanine), which is normally produced in cells after high intensity exercise, and reduces appetite. Metformin is a small, simple molecule that has long fallen out of patent, and is available very cheaply. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Phe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Phe https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2024/03/metformin-weight-diabetes.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2024/03/metformin-wei... https://www.nature.com/articles/s42255-024-00999-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s42255-024-00999-9

tssva 2y ago
Metformin has been the 1st choice for treatment of type 2 diabetes for decades. Countless millions have taken it daily for many years. Although I’m sure some lose weight taking the impact is not near as significant or wide spread as glp-1s. I have taken it for 20 years and never lost weight while on it. If there was significant weight loss across a large range of those taking it you would have heard a lot more about metformin being used for weight loss. I have taken Mounjaro since February and have experienced significant weight loss and my A1C has fallen to 5.3 which is significantly lower than on metformin alone or in combination with other type 2 medications.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  My personal experience with metformin was it didn't cause weight loss, until I deliberately also tried diet (< 100 g net carbs per day) and exercise (~4 miles walking/day). That ended up being much easier to stick to than I had previously found it to be, and has caused me to slowly but steadily lose 25 pounds since May.
  - tssva 2y ago
    That reads to me that you have lost weight due to a combination of diet and exercise. Not necessarily metformin.
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      The key point was that it was very weirdly easy, compared to previous efforts, and I credit metformin (1000 mg/day) for that.
sebastiangula 2y ago
Unfortunately, Metformin gives me a brain fog that isn’t acceptable while having an engineering role. Maybe it has an interaction with Vortioxetine, I don’t know.
loeg 2y ago
Also worth remembering that Metformin has an even higher GI distress side effect rate than GLP-1 drugs. Like, probably most people that take it get some bad GI side effects. It's not a great replacement for GLP-1 drugs.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  The only significant effect I've noticed is some constipation, and that's solved by psyllium fiber supplements (not the ones that also contain a separate laxative, mind you). Taken in capsule form these have no effect on taste or texture of food or drink.
  - loeg 2y ago
    I'm glad side effects are mild for you, but obviously a single anecdote doesn't contradict data from millions of other users.
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      Yes, of course. I wouldn't want to misrepresent a personal anecdote as anything more than what it is.
glp1guide 2y ago
While metformin is cheaper, I find that only fairly wealthy "longevity" maximizers have heard of it. Also, it's far less effective than GLP1 RAs at weight loss, which is what most people want.

Eumenes 2y ago

> “If you look at just the cost of obesity in the U.S., it’s a disease that costs Americans more than $400 billion a year,” Lars Fruergaard Jørgensen said in an interview on “NBC Nightly News.” OK, the Iraq war cost half that. Lets invade Denmark to beat obesity.

andrewmcwatters 2y ago

As soon as I read that article about how Ozempic seems to age your skin dramatically, I felt like the wind had basically been taken out of the drug. Just count your calories and work on developing good habits.

glp1guide 2y ago

Welp, water is wet. It won't be up to Novo Nordisk to reduce the cost of GLP1 RAs -- it will be up to other entrants into the market (that said, there are worryingly few), and huge companies taking up manufacturing of GLP1s and similar compounds. At this point, companies partnering with compounding pharmacies might hit mainstream (more than it already has) and be the go-to way to get GLP1 RAs. There's already a Liraglutide (Victoza/Saxenda) generic: https://glp1.guide/content/victoza-generic-hits-the-market https://glp1.guide/content/victoza-generic-hits-the-market Though I've seen some anecdotal reports that the generic was worse than regular Victoza.