4 ms·

Isn't that essentially already the case in the USA? The standard deduction for a single person is $14,600/year and the federal property level is very close to t

by _yb2s 2y ago

Isn't that essentially already the case in the USA? The standard deduction for a single person is $14,600/year and the federal property level is very close to that at $15,060/year. It's kind-of weird how these levels are set equal nationwide... as there are regions where this is a decent living and one could own a small single family home or condo, an older but reliable car, and eat well on that salary... and places where you would be homeless and have no day to day security or stability required to even keep a job.

giraffe_lady 2y ago
Are you being serious no one eats well on $15k/year.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  Nonsense.... I lived on under 10k/year for close to a decade in rural Oregon- a while enough ago that that would be about $14k/year now adjusted for inflation. I had a decent 2 bedroom apartment, two older but reliable cars I got for nearly free at auto auctions and a fast motorcycle, and cooked my own meals 3x/day from top quality local farmers market ingredients. I'm talking REALLY good food, the best quality fresh local meat and vegetables money can buy, that was the one thing I would not compromise on. I traveled a lot for fun also, but it was in my own (very fuel efficient) vehicles, cooking for myself on a camp stove while traveling and I could only afford restaurants a few times a year. Almost all of my possessions like furniture, etc. were high quality things I had slowly sourced for free over craigslist, with some dumpster diving and word of mouth. Mostly high end vintage hardwood stuff that looked expensive- Rich people don't sell that stuff, they give or throw it away. Personally, I felt like I was living very comfortably, and I quite enjoyed the challenge of living frugally. I felt a bit smug about how I creatively found ways to have pretty nice things, and a nice lifestyle without much cost. I'll add that nowadays I'm into 'sea foraging' and can jump in the ocean with a mask and a pole spear and eat like a king for free in a few minutes.
  - stonogo 2y ago
    I think if you look you'll find that housing costs have rapidly outpaced inflation, even in rural Oregon. Studio flats in La Grande are approaching a thousand dollars a month. I believe what you're saying is true, but I don't think the experiment could be replicated today.
    - _yb2s 2y ago
      You're probably right- I had a nice place much bigger than I needed and walking distance from work in one of the more expensive and desirable rural Oregon small towns for under $400/month! However, there are places more affordable than Oregon... I recently looked at home prices in the Mobile, AL area and it looks like you can buy a livable 3 bedroom home for ~$60k there- that could be about $400/mo for a mortgage. If one has the skills and knowledge to do so, you can still live very cheap on a boat almost anywhere- I know a lot of people with incomes in this range living on well maintained ~30 foot sailboats, even in the SF Bay area. A lot of what I'm talking about is substituting skills and free time for income. If you are good at DIY stuff, cooking, etc. you can live better for cheap. I only have those skills because I grew up upper middle class, and had parents that taught them to me- and I was in boy scouts, etc. You also have to have a lot of free time- if you're making $14k/year part time with no kids, it's totally different than if you're working full time and have kids- although the minimum deduction and poverty line will be higher with kids. I have friends that grew up poor with absent parents, and their lives are much more expensive than mine in many ways- they can't maintain an older car so they have to buy a newer one, they can't cook so they eat out more, etc.

by _yb2s 2y ago

giraffe_lady 2y ago

Are you being serious no one eats well on $15k/year.

_yb2s 2y ago
Nonsense.... I lived on under 10k/year for close to a decade in rural Oregon- a while enough ago that that would be about $14k/year now adjusted for inflation. I had a decent 2 bedroom apartment, two older but reliable cars I got for nearly free at auto auctions and a fast motorcycle, and cooked my own meals 3x/day from top quality local farmers market ingredients. I'm talking REALLY good food, the best quality fresh local meat and vegetables money can buy, that was the one thing I would not compromise on. I traveled a lot for fun also, but it was in my own (very fuel efficient) vehicles, cooking for myself on a camp stove while traveling and I could only afford restaurants a few times a year. Almost all of my possessions like furniture, etc. were high quality things I had slowly sourced for free over craigslist, with some dumpster diving and word of mouth. Mostly high end vintage hardwood stuff that looked expensive- Rich people don't sell that stuff, they give or throw it away. Personally, I felt like I was living very comfortably, and I quite enjoyed the challenge of living frugally. I felt a bit smug about how I creatively found ways to have pretty nice things, and a nice lifestyle without much cost. I'll add that nowadays I'm into 'sea foraging' and can jump in the ocean with a mask and a pole spear and eat like a king for free in a few minutes.
- stonogo 2y ago
  I think if you look you'll find that housing costs have rapidly outpaced inflation, even in rural Oregon. Studio flats in La Grande are approaching a thousand dollars a month. I believe what you're saying is true, but I don't think the experiment could be replicated today.
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    You're probably right- I had a nice place much bigger than I needed and walking distance from work in one of the more expensive and desirable rural Oregon small towns for under $400/month! However, there are places more affordable than Oregon... I recently looked at home prices in the Mobile, AL area and it looks like you can buy a livable 3 bedroom home for ~$60k there- that could be about $400/mo for a mortgage. If one has the skills and knowledge to do so, you can still live very cheap on a boat almost anywhere- I know a lot of people with incomes in this range living on well maintained ~30 foot sailboats, even in the SF Bay area. A lot of what I'm talking about is substituting skills and free time for income. If you are good at DIY stuff, cooking, etc. you can live better for cheap. I only have those skills because I grew up upper middle class, and had parents that taught them to me- and I was in boy scouts, etc. You also have to have a lot of free time- if you're making $14k/year part time with no kids, it's totally different than if you're working full time and have kids- although the minimum deduction and poverty line will be higher with kids. I have friends that grew up poor with absent parents, and their lives are much more expensive than mine in many ways- they can't maintain an older car so they have to buy a newer one, they can't cook so they eat out more, etc.