4 ms·

It’s just that solar panels can be imported from China without needing a skilled specialist workforce. Yey free market But nuclear has to be built here, and we

It’s just that solar panels can be imported from China without needing a skilled specialist workforce. Yey free market But nuclear has to be built here, and we in the west suck (especially UK/US, France still holding out) at building any big infrastructure without cost overruns. ‘Free market’ doesn’t like the risks of large, hard to finance, one off projects. And our governments have decided that if central planning doesn’t work, then they don’t need to plan anything at all. Combine that with lack of skilled staff workforce as all the people who built previous nuclear powerplants have already retired and the western firms wage war against their own skilled engineers, and you have a toxic cocktail. TL SR: the only reason Small Module Reactors are interesting is because they could be made in China and imported by our lazy system

bobthepanda 2y ago
no, SMRs are interesting because they represent smaller units of power. Nuclear reactors are huge things generating power in one specific location, so they're a large point of failure. In addition they have the opposite coin problem of solar and wind; whereas solar and wind don't generate enough power sometimes, nuclear often generates too much power for the grid, and can't easily be turned up or down. A lot of the pumped hydro we have was not developed for solar and wind storage, but for excess nuclear storage. Most hydro in Japan is pumped hydro for nuclear plants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectricity_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectricity_in_Japan If you are going to wind up with the same energy storage problems with nuclear or newer renewables then you may as well go with the cheaper option.
- realusername 2y ago
  Renewables have the problem on both sides though, they overproduce and underproduce. And the variability of this overproduction and underproduction is much greater than any nuclear plant.
  - natmaka 2y ago
    This was a major ordeal as long as we could not conveniently store massive amounts of electricity nor transport it far away, or quickly and frequently balance the grid (hence the need for 'baseload' generation). Those challenges vanished ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_energy_storage_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_energy_storage_system , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current , https://www.nrdc.org/experts/kevin-steinberger/debunking-three-myths-about-baseload https://www.nrdc.org/experts/kevin-steinberger/debunking-thr... ...)
    - realusername 2y ago
      None of those are good enough to store even just a few days of a country's production, let alone weeks or months.
      - natmaka 2y ago
        Source? None of those are meant to be sufficient ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy ), as for any system this is for the complete set of ways to reach the 'good enough' stage: a continental ( https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/180592/european-cooperation-could-provide-more-stable/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/180592/european-cooperation-... ) mix (wind, solar, geothermal, biomass...) backed up by storage, clean backup (green hydrogen)...
        realusername 2y ago
        The source is your own link, the biggest US battery can sustain a few minutes of the country's consumption. We aren't in the "good enough" stage but more "we need a breakthrough" stage. We are multiple orders of magnitude away to use those at a large scale. For green hydrogen that's pretty much the same issue, the efficiency is beyond terrible and we would need another breakthrough there. That's why no country on earth is managing with those.

bobthepanda 2y ago

no, SMRs are interesting because they represent smaller units of power. Nuclear reactors are huge things generating power in one specific location, so they're a large point of failure. In addition they have the opposite coin problem of solar and wind; whereas solar and wind don't generate enough power sometimes, nuclear often generates too much power for the grid, and can't easily be turned up or down. A lot of the pumped hydro we have was not developed for solar and wind storage, but for excess nuclear storage. Most hydro in Japan is pumped hydro for nuclear plants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectricity_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectricity_in_Japan If you are going to wind up with the same energy storage problems with nuclear or newer renewables then you may as well go with the cheaper option.

realusername 2y ago
Renewables have the problem on both sides though, they overproduce and underproduce. And the variability of this overproduction and underproduction is much greater than any nuclear plant.
- natmaka 2y ago
  This was a major ordeal as long as we could not conveniently store massive amounts of electricity nor transport it far away, or quickly and frequently balance the grid (hence the need for 'baseload' generation). Those challenges vanished ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_energy_storage_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_energy_storage_system , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current , https://www.nrdc.org/experts/kevin-steinberger/debunking-three-myths-about-baseload https://www.nrdc.org/experts/kevin-steinberger/debunking-thr... ...)
  - realusername 2y ago
    None of those are good enough to store even just a few days of a country's production, let alone weeks or months.
    - natmaka 2y ago
      Source? None of those are meant to be sufficient ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy ), as for any system this is for the complete set of ways to reach the 'good enough' stage: a continental ( https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/180592/european-cooperation-could-provide-more-stable/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/180592/european-cooperation-... ) mix (wind, solar, geothermal, biomass...) backed up by storage, clean backup (green hydrogen)...
      - realusername 2y ago
        The source is your own link, the biggest US battery can sustain a few minutes of the country's consumption. We aren't in the "good enough" stage but more "we need a breakthrough" stage. We are multiple orders of magnitude away to use those at a large scale. For green hydrogen that's pretty much the same issue, the efficiency is beyond terrible and we would need another breakthrough there. That's why no country on earth is managing with those.