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There is definitely a difference between “someone who can write a working computer program in a language” and “someone who can design, maintain, communicate, do

There is definitely a difference between “someone who can write a working computer program in a language” and “someone who can design, maintain, communicate, document and own a part of a large software project.” Whatever you decide to call these two things anyone who has onboarded a new grad/intern has observed this distinction because its a different skill set.

mattacular 2y ago
Those are often the same person, at different points in their career.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- faizshah 2y ago
  You can absolutely work as a professional writing code for 20 years and never work on a large software project or a project with a large team. I worked on a small team at a government contractor that never used version control and deployments were an rsync from the lead engineer’s laptop to the cloud, this was in 2020. There’s a lot of industries like bioinformatics or journalism where there’s people who are adept at writing code but who are not doing software engineering.
mlinhares 2y ago
This repeats so frequently I can't believe people still make this mistake. Multiple times i've seen people hire people out of college, give them not well defined work and then get mad that the person can't deliver. It takes a long while for you to be able to go from fuzzy feature request to fully fledged product, people without experience need A LOT of handholding to be productive and that is fine, no one is born knowing everything and if you're going to hire people without experience you should EXPECT to invest time in training them.
- taway1874 2y ago
  +1 Seen it many times where a new grad / jr. engineer exaggerates their skills to get a job and the greedy hiring manager thinks s/he has scored big time with a cheaper hire. Big mistake on both ends. Be truthful, do a thorough assessment and it will be a good match.
supportengineer 2y ago
Here is a problem that I have. Working on the operations side of things I've seen so many ways software can fail. If someone asked me to design a system, I would draw on my experience, and create a very safe, conservative design. Which would be immediately laughed out of the room. So, I feel stuck in my career and I don't know how to get out of this trap.
- juliushuijnk 2y ago
  quit your job.
  - taway1874 2y ago
    I'm guessing you mean find a job where his/her skills are appreciated.
- taway1874 2y ago
  There was a time not too long ago where software development was considered an expensive investment. Only companies with crazy deep pockets or passionate engineers with equity promises (think startups) could afford to work in such a profession. It was special. Over the last couple decades businesses have worked hard to commoditize it in every possible way leading to every Tom, Dick & Harry calling themselves an "engineer" and every "company" needing to have a software/web presence. It's become basic - like electricity. So while your experience in carefully crafting a viable design and erring on the side of caution would have been appreciated decades ago, it's just not the nature of the game today. Just take heart that your approach is that of a true engineer and not someone who will cheapen their work by slapping on something that works in a sandbox type of env.
Dracophoenix 2y ago
Theoretically, it's like difference between a race car driver and a pit stop mechanic. However, coding & programming are much closer to each other than many other similarly associated occupations. I would go so far as to say that they rely on the same skillset, but different models and approaches. The practical differences between the two roles usually come down to the associated responsibilities attached to a project and the ability to fulfill them.
randomdata 2y ago
> because its a different skill set. In the same way that being able to play on a little league baseball team and being able to make it to the majors are different skill sets. Which is to say that it is the same essential skills, just varying degrees of proficiency.
- dahfizz 2y ago
  I think being a good engineer requires some amount of "soft skills" like project planing, documentation, understanding user requirements. Its more than just being good at writing code (but that's most of it).
  - randomdata 2y ago
    Writing a working program of any kind requires those in some capacity. You can do it poorly and minimally, but you can't escape it entirely. Indeed, a highly proficient developer will do those things well.

mattacular 2y ago

Those are often the same person, at different points in their career.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
faizshah 2y ago
You can absolutely work as a professional writing code for 20 years and never work on a large software project or a project with a large team. I worked on a small team at a government contractor that never used version control and deployments were an rsync from the lead engineer’s laptop to the cloud, this was in 2020. There’s a lot of industries like bioinformatics or journalism where there’s people who are adept at writing code but who are not doing software engineering.

mlinhares 2y ago

This repeats so frequently I can't believe people still make this mistake. Multiple times i've seen people hire people out of college, give them not well defined work and then get mad that the person can't deliver. It takes a long while for you to be able to go from fuzzy feature request to fully fledged product, people without experience need A LOT of handholding to be productive and that is fine, no one is born knowing everything and if you're going to hire people without experience you should EXPECT to invest time in training them.

taway1874 2y ago
+1 Seen it many times where a new grad / jr. engineer exaggerates their skills to get a job and the greedy hiring manager thinks s/he has scored big time with a cheaper hire. Big mistake on both ends. Be truthful, do a thorough assessment and it will be a good match.

supportengineer 2y ago

Here is a problem that I have. Working on the operations side of things I've seen so many ways software can fail. If someone asked me to design a system, I would draw on my experience, and create a very safe, conservative design. Which would be immediately laughed out of the room. So, I feel stuck in my career and I don't know how to get out of this trap.

juliushuijnk 2y ago
quit your job.
- taway1874 2y ago
  I'm guessing you mean find a job where his/her skills are appreciated.
taway1874 2y ago
There was a time not too long ago where software development was considered an expensive investment. Only companies with crazy deep pockets or passionate engineers with equity promises (think startups) could afford to work in such a profession. It was special. Over the last couple decades businesses have worked hard to commoditize it in every possible way leading to every Tom, Dick & Harry calling themselves an "engineer" and every "company" needing to have a software/web presence. It's become basic - like electricity. So while your experience in carefully crafting a viable design and erring on the side of caution would have been appreciated decades ago, it's just not the nature of the game today. Just take heart that your approach is that of a true engineer and not someone who will cheapen their work by slapping on something that works in a sandbox type of env.

Dracophoenix 2y ago

Theoretically, it's like difference between a race car driver and a pit stop mechanic. However, coding & programming are much closer to each other than many other similarly associated occupations. I would go so far as to say that they rely on the same skillset, but different models and approaches. The practical differences between the two roles usually come down to the associated responsibilities attached to a project and the ability to fulfill them.

randomdata 2y ago

> because its a different skill set. In the same way that being able to play on a little league baseball team and being able to make it to the majors are different skill sets. Which is to say that it is the same essential skills, just varying degrees of proficiency.

dahfizz 2y ago
I think being a good engineer requires some amount of "soft skills" like project planing, documentation, understanding user requirements. Its more than just being good at writing code (but that's most of it).
- randomdata 2y ago
  Writing a working program of any kind requires those in some capacity. You can do it poorly and minimally, but you can't escape it entirely. Indeed, a highly proficient developer will do those things well.