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I don't have a proverbial dog in this race but I agree with the outrage and I don't think "stealing back" is at all hyperbolic. I guess if you're really really

I don't have a proverbial dog in this race but I agree with the outrage and I don't think "stealing back" is at all hyperbolic. I guess if you're really really really young and all you know is subscription based software, then that is the world you know and you might just be accustomed to it and accept it. But if Finale has been around for 35 years, then it existed long before "cloud" and long before subscription software was a thing. If someone has invested money and time into using that software, into creating project files that only work with it, in learning how to use that then it is not remotely acceptable in my opinion to disable their access to something that they have paid for and invested in. I don't think that "stealing" is an inappropriate word to use in that case. Not even a little bit of hyperbole. Does that mean that MakeMusic should continue to invest their own resources into maintaining it? Absolutely not. To answer your question: "what do you actually want to have happen to Finale that’s realistic for MakeMusic?": I would suggest that they allow people who have paid for it to continue to use it indefinitely. This might mean that they need to release a patched version that's not going to activate remotely through their servers with a download link that will eventually expire. I acknowledge that that doesn't cost them "absolutely nothing" but it's not a major expense (also happens to be a fixed cost) and it prevents them from being akin to your fridge manufacturer saying "we are discontinuing this model, as well as repair services for this model, therefore we are going to enter your house and physically remove your fridge one year from now so that you will be forever unable to use the thing that you paid us money for." What they get in return for this one time "end of life" service for their paying customers is customer retention and good will. I mean, I know that I will never consider buying anything from MakeMusic as a result of hearing that they might shut off my access to things I bought and paid for at any time.

dahart 2y ago
Users who’ve paid for it can continue to use it indefinitely, albeit with no support after 1 year from now. The fridge analogy is wrong. MakeMusic is not going to remove the software from your computer. > it’s not a major expense (also happens to be a fixed cost) That’s unlikely to be true, and not anyone’s decision but MakeMusic’s. What if they don’t have the money? It’s not reasonable for me to ask you to pay me $10 on the grounds that it’s not a major expense and is a fixed cost, right?
- vunderba 2y ago
  Users who’ve paid for it can continue to use it indefinitely, albeit with no support after 1 year from now FALSE. From the announcement, "It will not be possible to authorize Finale on any new devices, or reauthorize Finale". If I have to reinstall it for any reason, such as my computer dying, or I get a virus, or I upgrade my computer, or any myriad of reasons, I am completely SOL and can no longer "continue to use it indefinitely".
  - dahart 2y ago
    I was referring to this: https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/25843888130839-Finale-Sunset-FAQ#h_01J603J4X4GDVMKQBPN2Q4FNTX https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/258438881308... “Will my software continue to function? Yes! Your existing authorized Finale installations will continue to work as long as your current computer is working.” BTW, I did make the mistake of saying ‘forever’ in another comment, but FWIW ‘indefinitely’ doesn’t mean forever. Also, it doesn’t matter what I say, I don’t work for MakeMusic, just read the whole FAQ.
    - gspencley 2y ago
      > but FWIW ‘indefinitely’ doesn’t mean forever You just really like arguing for the sake of arguing don't you? I'm sure that if I opened a dictionary I would find the distinction, but most people treat the words 'indefinitely' and 'forever' as synonymous. Nit-picking on that minutia kind of makes you come across like the obnoxious little brother who does the "But I'm not touching you!" thing to his sister. It's just annoying and most reasonable people know exactly how 'indefinitely' and 'forever' will be interpreted.
    - wvenable 2y ago
      "...will continue to work as long as your current computer is working." This doesn't seem dumb to you?
      - dahart 2y ago
        Yeah sure, in a way. It’s kinda dumb in the sense that ‘as long as your computer is working’ actually means ‘ending soon’, for the majority of people in the real world. That seems obvious though. Few people if anyone can keep their current computer working with a software app that freezes. It might stop working in a year, it might be more than that, or might be less than that (which they explicitly admit re: Sequoia). It’s a sort of glass-half-full spin, perhaps, but doesn’t seem misleading to me in light of all the FAQ entries and the letter. They are very clearly and explicitly recommending users move off of Finale asap, and not wait for the computer to stop working, whatever that might mean. If someone really truly depends on Finale professionally, and can’t move within a year, it’s not outside the bounds of possibility to freeze their computer, buy a new one for everything else, and keep Finale running for a while. I would in no way recommend that, but I’ve seen people do it before.

dahart 2y ago

Users who’ve paid for it can continue to use it indefinitely, albeit with no support after 1 year from now. The fridge analogy is wrong. MakeMusic is not going to remove the software from your computer. > it’s not a major expense (also happens to be a fixed cost) That’s unlikely to be true, and not anyone’s decision but MakeMusic’s. What if they don’t have the money? It’s not reasonable for me to ask you to pay me $10 on the grounds that it’s not a major expense and is a fixed cost, right?

vunderba 2y ago
Users who’ve paid for it can continue to use it indefinitely, albeit with no support after 1 year from now FALSE. From the announcement, "It will not be possible to authorize Finale on any new devices, or reauthorize Finale". If I have to reinstall it for any reason, such as my computer dying, or I get a virus, or I upgrade my computer, or any myriad of reasons, I am completely SOL and can no longer "continue to use it indefinitely".
- dahart 2y ago
  I was referring to this: https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/25843888130839-Finale-Sunset-FAQ#h_01J603J4X4GDVMKQBPN2Q4FNTX https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/258438881308... “Will my software continue to function? Yes! Your existing authorized Finale installations will continue to work as long as your current computer is working.” BTW, I did make the mistake of saying ‘forever’ in another comment, but FWIW ‘indefinitely’ doesn’t mean forever. Also, it doesn’t matter what I say, I don’t work for MakeMusic, just read the whole FAQ.
  - gspencley 2y ago
    > but FWIW ‘indefinitely’ doesn’t mean forever You just really like arguing for the sake of arguing don't you? I'm sure that if I opened a dictionary I would find the distinction, but most people treat the words 'indefinitely' and 'forever' as synonymous. Nit-picking on that minutia kind of makes you come across like the obnoxious little brother who does the "But I'm not touching you!" thing to his sister. It's just annoying and most reasonable people know exactly how 'indefinitely' and 'forever' will be interpreted.
  - wvenable 2y ago
    "...will continue to work as long as your current computer is working." This doesn't seem dumb to you?
    - dahart 2y ago
      Yeah sure, in a way. It’s kinda dumb in the sense that ‘as long as your computer is working’ actually means ‘ending soon’, for the majority of people in the real world. That seems obvious though. Few people if anyone can keep their current computer working with a software app that freezes. It might stop working in a year, it might be more than that, or might be less than that (which they explicitly admit re: Sequoia). It’s a sort of glass-half-full spin, perhaps, but doesn’t seem misleading to me in light of all the FAQ entries and the letter. They are very clearly and explicitly recommending users move off of Finale asap, and not wait for the computer to stop working, whatever that might mean. If someone really truly depends on Finale professionally, and can’t move within a year, it’s not outside the bounds of possibility to freeze their computer, buy a new one for everything else, and keep Finale running for a while. I would in no way recommend that, but I’ve seen people do it before.