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I don't understand the point of this article. That IQ is different then height? Oke great and? I have never seen anyone claim they were the same.

Kye 2y ago
I have! We're all singular entities with a narrow lens into the experiences of others, so it's inevitable we'll never encounter things that others encounter way too much.
- rowanG077 2y ago
  Where do you encounter something like this? Could you point it out to me? If it deserves such a ridiculous rebuttal I would expect to be able to easily find it online.
  - Kye 2y ago
    I don't keep a log of silly eugenics nonsense I encounter and, if nothing else, we probably have the common experience of Google getting worse at this kind of query. Some of it was on HN, at least. If you find it, good luck! I've never had much success rebutting this kind of thing.
- randomdata 2y ago
  Interesting. How would one even go about expressing the idea that height and intelligence are literally the exact same thing in such a way that someone would want to talk about it?
  - Kye 2y ago
    People are weird. I gave up reasoning with them. "No amount of persistence and practice will let me dunk on Shaq, but high IQ people get dunked on all the time" should be a winner vs people who think genetics determine everything, but neo-eugenicists just don't want to hear it. They have an unreasonable faith in genes.
    - randomdata 2y ago
      > "No amount of persistence and practice will let me dunk on Shaq, but high IQ people get dunked on all the time" should be a winner How so? It seems you're not even speaking their language. Given that in their reality height and IQ are the same thing, your assertion contradicts itself. If no amount of persistence and practice will let you dunk on Shaq, why would tall people get dunked on all the time? Be honest: You haven't really heard anyone claim that height and IQ are the same thing, have you?
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - Kye 2y ago
        >> "Be honest: You haven't really heard anyone claim that height and IQ are the same thing, have you?" I cannot imagine what your motivation is for making such a bizarre and out of place accusation but I won't participate in whatever it is you're trying to do here.
        randomdata 2y ago
        > I cannot imagine what your motivation is for making such a bizarre and out of place accusation It is abundantly clear that you are not talking about the same thing as the original post. It was a friendly gesture to allow you to go back and clear up whatever misconception you picked up when you read it originally. But, as you have chosen to double down, ... > but I won't participate in whatever it is you're trying to do here. Thing is, you already have. On multiple occasions. Now you are blatantly lying. Is that what happened last time too?
bumby 2y ago
It's simply a claim about heritability of intelligence. In other words, "Intelligence isn't inheritable like height" according to the author. There are certainly plenty of people who claim that genetics explains a large part of intelligence.
- rowanG077 2y ago
  It's very hard to look at heritability and make a genetics conclusion. That's because two people's genes fuse to make a new person. And this process could be chaotic for some traits. So even if trait x is genetic it may not be possible to predict that trait in the children based on the trait in the parents. So it's possible intelligence is genetic even if heritability suggests it isn't. What would be interesting is to look at monozygotic twins. If their IQ scores are more highly correlated then siblings or non-monozygotic twins it's a clear indication intelligence is genetic. But I imagine that the sample set is tiny.
zzzeek 2y ago
> I have never seen anyone claim they were the same. well read some of the other comments coming in here. I dare not upmod this article on a site like Hacker News.
bitwize 2y ago
It's to debunk the pseudoscientific nonsense -- rooted in racism and white supremacy -- that IQ is a largely genetically determined trait which is then often used to assert that certain ethnic groups are on average smarter or stupider than other ethnic groups.
- poszlem 2y ago
  White supremacy that claims that asians have the highest IQs. Makes all the sense in the world.
  - rowanG077 2y ago
    Now I was curious and looked it up. They may have a point. Average IQ is highest in asian countries: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-i... and it's not even close.
- rjsw 2y ago
  More that because IQ isn't genetically determined any data that makes it look like certain ethnic groups are smarter or stupider than other ethnic groups must be wrong. The argument on both sides misses out that the IQ data seen could be a result of other factors that are only indirectly associated with an ethnic group, such as that group being descended from people who were enslaved or who practiced polygamy or who don't prevent first cousins from marrying.
  - randomdata 2y ago
    > More that because IQ isn't genetically determined any data that makes it look like certain ethnic groups are smarter or stupider than other ethnic groups must be wrong. Why must it be wrong? The data is quite clear that a person of a given ethic group is most likely to associate with other people of the same ethnic group. If we are to assume that intelligence is determined by environmental factors, it is quite likely that intelligence will vary by ethnic group due to ethnic groups tending to group around different environments. > such as that group being descended from people who were enslaved or who practiced polygamy or who don't prevent first cousins from marrying. For those who believe that intelligence is heritable, isn't that exactly what they are talking about? I don't see how it is missed.

Kye 2y ago

I have! We're all singular entities with a narrow lens into the experiences of others, so it's inevitable we'll never encounter things that others encounter way too much.

rowanG077 2y ago
Where do you encounter something like this? Could you point it out to me? If it deserves such a ridiculous rebuttal I would expect to be able to easily find it online.
- Kye 2y ago
  I don't keep a log of silly eugenics nonsense I encounter and, if nothing else, we probably have the common experience of Google getting worse at this kind of query. Some of it was on HN, at least. If you find it, good luck! I've never had much success rebutting this kind of thing.
randomdata 2y ago
Interesting. How would one even go about expressing the idea that height and intelligence are literally the exact same thing in such a way that someone would want to talk about it?
- Kye 2y ago
  People are weird. I gave up reasoning with them. "No amount of persistence and practice will let me dunk on Shaq, but high IQ people get dunked on all the time" should be a winner vs people who think genetics determine everything, but neo-eugenicists just don't want to hear it. They have an unreasonable faith in genes.
  - randomdata 2y ago
    > "No amount of persistence and practice will let me dunk on Shaq, but high IQ people get dunked on all the time" should be a winner How so? It seems you're not even speaking their language. Given that in their reality height and IQ are the same thing, your assertion contradicts itself. If no amount of persistence and practice will let you dunk on Shaq, why would tall people get dunked on all the time? Be honest: You haven't really heard anyone claim that height and IQ are the same thing, have you?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - Kye 2y ago
      >> "Be honest: You haven't really heard anyone claim that height and IQ are the same thing, have you?" I cannot imagine what your motivation is for making such a bizarre and out of place accusation but I won't participate in whatever it is you're trying to do here.
      - randomdata 2y ago
        > I cannot imagine what your motivation is for making such a bizarre and out of place accusation It is abundantly clear that you are not talking about the same thing as the original post. It was a friendly gesture to allow you to go back and clear up whatever misconception you picked up when you read it originally. But, as you have chosen to double down, ... > but I won't participate in whatever it is you're trying to do here. Thing is, you already have. On multiple occasions. Now you are blatantly lying. Is that what happened last time too?

bumby 2y ago

It's simply a claim about heritability of intelligence. In other words, "Intelligence isn't inheritable like height" according to the author. There are certainly plenty of people who claim that genetics explains a large part of intelligence.

rowanG077 2y ago
It's very hard to look at heritability and make a genetics conclusion. That's because two people's genes fuse to make a new person. And this process could be chaotic for some traits. So even if trait x is genetic it may not be possible to predict that trait in the children based on the trait in the parents. So it's possible intelligence is genetic even if heritability suggests it isn't. What would be interesting is to look at monozygotic twins. If their IQ scores are more highly correlated then siblings or non-monozygotic twins it's a clear indication intelligence is genetic. But I imagine that the sample set is tiny.

zzzeek 2y ago

> I have never seen anyone claim they were the same. well read some of the other comments coming in here. I dare not upmod this article on a site like Hacker News.

bitwize 2y ago

It's to debunk the pseudoscientific nonsense -- rooted in racism and white supremacy -- that IQ is a largely genetically determined trait which is then often used to assert that certain ethnic groups are on average smarter or stupider than other ethnic groups.

poszlem 2y ago
White supremacy that claims that asians have the highest IQs. Makes all the sense in the world.
- rowanG077 2y ago
  Now I was curious and looked it up. They may have a point. Average IQ is highest in asian countries: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-i... and it's not even close.
rjsw 2y ago
More that because IQ isn't genetically determined any data that makes it look like certain ethnic groups are smarter or stupider than other ethnic groups must be wrong. The argument on both sides misses out that the IQ data seen could be a result of other factors that are only indirectly associated with an ethnic group, such as that group being descended from people who were enslaved or who practiced polygamy or who don't prevent first cousins from marrying.
- randomdata 2y ago
  > More that because IQ isn't genetically determined any data that makes it look like certain ethnic groups are smarter or stupider than other ethnic groups must be wrong. Why must it be wrong? The data is quite clear that a person of a given ethic group is most likely to associate with other people of the same ethnic group. If we are to assume that intelligence is determined by environmental factors, it is quite likely that intelligence will vary by ethnic group due to ethnic groups tending to group around different environments. > such as that group being descended from people who were enslaved or who practiced polygamy or who don't prevent first cousins from marrying. For those who believe that intelligence is heritable, isn't that exactly what they are talking about? I don't see how it is missed.