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>And this is how it already works in “most places”. Where it isn’t currently doing that you propose installing meters that aren’t already there, or determining

>And this is how it already works in “most places”. Where it isn’t currently doing that you propose installing meters that aren’t already there, or determining pipe size to every user to determine the proper amount to charge for their shit. How is this not adding complexity ? Sewage systems are built under permit virtually everywhere and the pipe size or drain units is documented. I live in about the least regulated place in the Continental US and even here my drain units are public record. Of course if everything is private connections could be added without permit since that burden falls privately. Of course if water is unmetered and public I think the average person even worse, with tragedy of the commons and the rich or corps consuming water in mass then taxing the poor to fund it. >Sure, just as soon as you pay for all of the infrastructure between your community and the septic system. I wonder how many million or billions of dollars that would add up to. This doesn't make sense. You tax this in pieces, you can 'tax' at consumption in pieces without each consumer building their own billion dollars in infrastructure. If your local companies are selling PVC pipes and Portland cement to country folk, why aren't you charging them for that infrastructure instead of complaining about maybe poorer people are getting a slight discount on poop system materials at your cost (which you seem to think is good anyway, personally im noy sure how much im robbing you when i privately buy portland and pvc, but corporations siphoning tax money via subsidies etc can be a problem). >In practice they’re spending that money on something else. This isn’t about savvy savers losing a few percent to inflation. This is about people mortgaging a way to take a shit because they need to hook up their apartment to some company’s system. ... Apartment owners mortgage the cost of their sewage pipe yes, as well as the toilet they sit on. If renting landlord pays for the pipes you rent and indirectly also pay for. This is the case whether you connect to a public or private system, taxes or not. You are not mortgaging the cost of the treatment system unless you own it. >Huh, no restrooms available in the city? Oh wait, you have to be a customer to use a lot of those restrooms… so you have to pay to shit. Crazy how that isn’t working. It’s not libertarianism that’s wrong, it’s the damn poor and mentally ill. If you want shitters for the homeless why don't you buy them some? Or if it's so wildly popular a cause why not solicit donations? Taxes haven't been very successful at solving the problem and you have it all figured out so you should spearhead it. How much are you committing today for shitters for the homeless?

baseballdork 2y ago
> Sewage systems are built under permit virtually everywhere and the pipe size or drain units is documented. You’re just repeating what I’ve already said. This already happens, but where it doesn’t you must add a bunch of overhead to make it work. > You tax this in pieces, you can 'tax' at consumption in pieces without each consumer building their own billion dollars in infrastructure. That is easy to say when you _already have_ tax payer funded infrastructure to start with. If you include the costs of building all the roads, ports, rail, as well as all the tax payer services that make it reasonable for employees to live in cities near the factories this stuff is made. What I’m trying to point out here is that your $5,000 shitter is going to be significantly more expensive once that’s taken into account. You are freeloading on work already paid for by others in order to make your libertarian idea remotely feasible. > Apartment owners mortgage the cost of their sewage pipe yes, as well as the toilet they sit on. Not talking about owners, I’m talking about renters. I’m talking about people who really ought not to have to make the decision to go into thousands of dollars of debt in order to shit just so you can say you didn’t have to contribute. > If you want shitters for the homeless why don't you buy them some? Because I couldn’t afford to. I’m not rich. However, society can. > Taxes haven't been very successful at solving the problem This is, at best, wild speculation. We do pay taxes, taxes are used to assist and shelter the homeless. You’re saying that because it hasn’t completely solved homelessness then it’s worthless and your little libertarian faction should be able to reap all the benefits of the things paid for by cities and pay nothing back into it. The good news is that will never happen because it is so popular to provide social benefits through tax payer funds. Most people are unwilling to be such ardent boot lickers of the wealthy.
- beaglesss 2y ago
  >t where it doesn’t you must add a bunch of overhead to make it work. Unmetered water/sewage access is not popular with taxpayers and likely would be a regressive tax in favor of wealthy/corps. > You are freeloading on work already paid for by others in order to make your libertarian idea remotely feasible. If companies selling septic system materials rural people buy are freeloaders, this is something your jurisdiction is going to have to deal with and hopefully fix, as making out sewers public is still going to result in our people buying PVC and Portland cement from your businesses. Your issue here is not with our sewers but that you've failed to control externalities of your businesses. >Because I couldn’t afford to. I’m not rich. However, society can. Many taxpayers can't either. Yet you want to force them to when even you won't do it! >. You’re saying that because it hasn’t completely solved homelessness then it’s worthless and your little libertarian faction should be able to reap all I've said exactly what I've said. Sure you could use taxes and build a shitter next to every homeless tent (of course you admit you taxpayer have no money for that). The problem is in part housing is unaffordable, in large part due to regulations, zoning, codes, TAXES, and of course in the case of public sewers the difficult task of convincing a bunch of NIMBYs to allow their tax funded homeless bathroom to be built next to them. I'm empowering you, since people are so willing to go along with it that they'll vote for the taxes, by all means go ahead and start a private charity and fulfill your dream. Better than what you're doing now, which is complaining to people like me who've actually personally funded and built sewage systems about how I'm a freeloader and if you could just steal enough money from others you could fulfill your goals without expending any efforts or your own money.

baseballdork 2y ago

> Sewage systems are built under permit virtually everywhere and the pipe size or drain units is documented. You’re just repeating what I’ve already said. This already happens, but where it doesn’t you must add a bunch of overhead to make it work. > You tax this in pieces, you can 'tax' at consumption in pieces without each consumer building their own billion dollars in infrastructure. That is easy to say when you _already have_ tax payer funded infrastructure to start with. If you include the costs of building all the roads, ports, rail, as well as all the tax payer services that make it reasonable for employees to live in cities near the factories this stuff is made. What I’m trying to point out here is that your $5,000 shitter is going to be significantly more expensive once that’s taken into account. You are freeloading on work already paid for by others in order to make your libertarian idea remotely feasible. > Apartment owners mortgage the cost of their sewage pipe yes, as well as the toilet they sit on. Not talking about owners, I’m talking about renters. I’m talking about people who really ought not to have to make the decision to go into thousands of dollars of debt in order to shit just so you can say you didn’t have to contribute. > If you want shitters for the homeless why don't you buy them some? Because I couldn’t afford to. I’m not rich. However, society can. > Taxes haven't been very successful at solving the problem This is, at best, wild speculation. We do pay taxes, taxes are used to assist and shelter the homeless. You’re saying that because it hasn’t completely solved homelessness then it’s worthless and your little libertarian faction should be able to reap all the benefits of the things paid for by cities and pay nothing back into it. The good news is that will never happen because it is so popular to provide social benefits through tax payer funds. Most people are unwilling to be such ardent boot lickers of the wealthy.

beaglesss 2y ago
>t where it doesn’t you must add a bunch of overhead to make it work. Unmetered water/sewage access is not popular with taxpayers and likely would be a regressive tax in favor of wealthy/corps. > You are freeloading on work already paid for by others in order to make your libertarian idea remotely feasible. If companies selling septic system materials rural people buy are freeloaders, this is something your jurisdiction is going to have to deal with and hopefully fix, as making out sewers public is still going to result in our people buying PVC and Portland cement from your businesses. Your issue here is not with our sewers but that you've failed to control externalities of your businesses. >Because I couldn’t afford to. I’m not rich. However, society can. Many taxpayers can't either. Yet you want to force them to when even you won't do it! >. You’re saying that because it hasn’t completely solved homelessness then it’s worthless and your little libertarian faction should be able to reap all I've said exactly what I've said. Sure you could use taxes and build a shitter next to every homeless tent (of course you admit you taxpayer have no money for that). The problem is in part housing is unaffordable, in large part due to regulations, zoning, codes, TAXES, and of course in the case of public sewers the difficult task of convincing a bunch of NIMBYs to allow their tax funded homeless bathroom to be built next to them. I'm empowering you, since people are so willing to go along with it that they'll vote for the taxes, by all means go ahead and start a private charity and fulfill your dream. Better than what you're doing now, which is complaining to people like me who've actually personally funded and built sewage systems about how I'm a freeloader and if you could just steal enough money from others you could fulfill your goals without expending any efforts or your own money.