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Or I simply stop using their pricing, undercut my competitors, and gain tenants. Same as before. The US has around 15million landlords, 20+ million units. Real

Or I simply stop using their pricing, undercut my competitors, and gain tenants. Same as before. The US has around 15million landlords, 20+ million units. RealPage has ~6000 customers. It's pretty hard to set market prices with literally millions of competing landlords.

vineyardmike 2y ago
> Or I simply stop using their pricing, undercut my competitors, and gain tenants. Same as before. Except the landlords signed a contract... they legally bound themselves to using their pricing. Also the market keeps changing, so you'll need their pricing in the future (so you can't break your contracts), or you'll need to do your own independent market research without access to their data. > It's pretty hard to set market prices with literally millions of competing landlords. What's the most important rule in real-estate? Location. Location. Location. "Market" prices, obviously, apply to a "market". There are not millions of landlords in any given real-estate market. You can't compare a studio in Manhattan to a townhome in SF and a ranch house in Houston. No one is actually shopping for a rental and considering all those options. The entire US is not one market. The housing market in many parts of America do not operate like a traditional commodity market. Demand outpaces supply, and landlords can't just make more units to compete on margin - most landlords have very low vacancy rates already. There is no incentive to undercut your competition when you can fill units at higher prices with no drop to vacancy rates through cooperation. If it was this easy, the company wouldn't exist and the suit wouldn't be moving through the courts.
- SideQuark 2y ago
  > signed a contract Contracts aren't infinite. And contracts have to follow the law. > so you'll need their pricing in the future (so you can't break your contracts), or you'll need to do your own independent market research without access to their data >The entire US is not one market. Are you trying to claim that of the millions of landlords, somehow they are clustered away from bigger markets and that RealPage controls all in any given area? Here's an idea: demonstrate that in some big market that RealPage controls the majority of the rental units, otherwise it's ludicrous to say they are setting prices somehow arbitrarily. You can't since it's not true. I think not.
  - vineyardmike 2y ago
    > Contracts aren't infinite. And contracts have to follow the law. Yes! And the RealPage contract broke the law. It prevented landlords from competing as you suggest they compete, breaking the law. It enabled landlords to collude and prevent prices from dropping. Landlords are part of larger markets, but it’s ridiculous to think the market is “all of America”. It’s very regionalized and segmented. > Here's an idea: demonstrate that in some big market that RealPage controls the majority of the rental units, otherwise it's ludicrous to say they are setting prices somehow arbitrarily. You can't since it's not true. I think not. You absolutely can claim they are setting pricing arbitrarily… why are you defending a company whose business you seem to know nothing about? Again, their entire business model is a subscription to collusion pricing. Collusion is illegal event without a monopoly. They are price fixing. They are not alleged to have a monopoly over housing units. That said, they are alleged to have a monopoly power… According to the DOJ: > The complaint separately alleges that RealPage has unlawfully maintained its monopoly over commercial revenue management software for multi-family dwellings in the United States, in which RealPage commands approximately 80% market share.
    - SideQuark 2y ago
      > ts monopoly over commercial revenue management software for multi-family dwellings in the United States Yes, if define a market small enough, then you can try to claim monopoly (which, of course, is not illegal). Apple fixes prices of it's goods across all retailers, as do many manufacturers. Is this illegal? They control the market for apple good, so why don't the retailers compete on price? Because it is legal for somone to set prices across retailers. It always has been. And in the case of landlords, the sheer number of options for consumers most likely means this DOJ action, like many, will fail. You forgot to reply to: > demonstrate that in some big market that RealPage controls the majority of the rental units, I'll wait. Unless you care to answer this basic question there's no reason to continue.

vineyardmike 2y ago

> Or I simply stop using their pricing, undercut my competitors, and gain tenants. Same as before. Except the landlords signed a contract... they legally bound themselves to using their pricing. Also the market keeps changing, so you'll need their pricing in the future (so you can't break your contracts), or you'll need to do your own independent market research without access to their data. > It's pretty hard to set market prices with literally millions of competing landlords. What's the most important rule in real-estate? Location. Location. Location. "Market" prices, obviously, apply to a "market". There are not millions of landlords in any given real-estate market. You can't compare a studio in Manhattan to a townhome in SF and a ranch house in Houston. No one is actually shopping for a rental and considering all those options. The entire US is not one market. The housing market in many parts of America do not operate like a traditional commodity market. Demand outpaces supply, and landlords can't just make more units to compete on margin - most landlords have very low vacancy rates already. There is no incentive to undercut your competition when you can fill units at higher prices with no drop to vacancy rates through cooperation. If it was this easy, the company wouldn't exist and the suit wouldn't be moving through the courts.

SideQuark 2y ago
> signed a contract Contracts aren't infinite. And contracts have to follow the law. > so you'll need their pricing in the future (so you can't break your contracts), or you'll need to do your own independent market research without access to their data >The entire US is not one market. Are you trying to claim that of the millions of landlords, somehow they are clustered away from bigger markets and that RealPage controls all in any given area? Here's an idea: demonstrate that in some big market that RealPage controls the majority of the rental units, otherwise it's ludicrous to say they are setting prices somehow arbitrarily. You can't since it's not true. I think not.
- vineyardmike 2y ago
  > Contracts aren't infinite. And contracts have to follow the law. Yes! And the RealPage contract broke the law. It prevented landlords from competing as you suggest they compete, breaking the law. It enabled landlords to collude and prevent prices from dropping. Landlords are part of larger markets, but it’s ridiculous to think the market is “all of America”. It’s very regionalized and segmented. > Here's an idea: demonstrate that in some big market that RealPage controls the majority of the rental units, otherwise it's ludicrous to say they are setting prices somehow arbitrarily. You can't since it's not true. I think not. You absolutely can claim they are setting pricing arbitrarily… why are you defending a company whose business you seem to know nothing about? Again, their entire business model is a subscription to collusion pricing. Collusion is illegal event without a monopoly. They are price fixing. They are not alleged to have a monopoly over housing units. That said, they are alleged to have a monopoly power… According to the DOJ: > The complaint separately alleges that RealPage has unlawfully maintained its monopoly over commercial revenue management software for multi-family dwellings in the United States, in which RealPage commands approximately 80% market share.
  - SideQuark 2y ago
    > ts monopoly over commercial revenue management software for multi-family dwellings in the United States Yes, if define a market small enough, then you can try to claim monopoly (which, of course, is not illegal). Apple fixes prices of it's goods across all retailers, as do many manufacturers. Is this illegal? They control the market for apple good, so why don't the retailers compete on price? Because it is legal for somone to set prices across retailers. It always has been. And in the case of landlords, the sheer number of options for consumers most likely means this DOJ action, like many, will fail. You forgot to reply to: > demonstrate that in some big market that RealPage controls the majority of the rental units, I'll wait. Unless you care to answer this basic question there's no reason to continue.