3 ms·

This is like saying you would have been okay with Hitlers whole plan to get some Lebensraum if only he hadn't killed all those people to get it. Face the facts

This is like saying you would have been okay with Hitlers whole plan to get some Lebensraum if only he hadn't killed all those people to get it. Face the facts: Israel is promoting apartheid conditions in the region, upon a mass of population that it has no legal right to do so. Why on earth would anyone who lives in the region, who wants stability in the region, trust the nuclear-armed state of Israel if it is continuing to kill innocents in its quest for power?

_djo_ 14y ago
I'm disappointed that Godwin's Law appeared so soon, the circumstances are not even remotely comparable. As I said above, this isn't about morality or whether Israel is right or wrong to occupy the West Bank, because that is not a real factor in this particular geopolitical strategic situation. This is purely about relative strategic postures and their implications for the Middle East. There is no cognitive dissonance in holding the views that Israel is a defensive nuclear power posing no threat to its neighbours, but its treatment of the Palestinians is wrong, and Iran should not acquire nuclear weapons. In fact that's the view held by many EU member states. It can be argued that the Palestinian situation contributes to instability and should be fairly resolved for that reason alone, but that does not and should not factor into an objective assessment of Iran's nuclear program. Iran seeks nuclear weapons because it wants to become the dominant power in the region and assume hegemony over its Arab neighbours, not because it worries about Palestinians. The fact that most of the Arab powers in the region are more afraid of Iran's nuclear program than they are of Israel's existing arsenal should be evidence enough of how those who live in the region, want stability in the region and have something to lose are willing to trust Israel's nuclear posture.
- seclorum 14y ago
  I'm disappointed that Godwin's Law appeared so soon, the circumstances are not even remotely comparable. Well, I beg you to see it from the perspective of the men, women and children who are currently imprisoned in the worlds largest open-air concentration camp. And frankly, that you cannot see the similarities belies a lot about your bias in this argument. As I said above, this isn't about morality or whether Israel is right or wrong to occupy the West Bank, because that is not a real factor in this particular geopolitical strategic situation. This is purely about relative strategic postures and their implications for the Middle East. Israel could solve all of its foreign policy problems if it let the populations in the West Bank have access to fresh, clean water. If they stopped encouraging the criminal settlers from encroaching on the lebensraum of the populations who were there before them (i.e. gave back the homes stolen). There is a lot more that could be done by Israel to settle tempers in the Mid East, besides writing viruses and attacking other, peaceful nations, rights to clean nuclear power.
  - anamax 14y ago
    > Well, I beg you to see it from the perspective of the men, women and children who are currently imprisoned in the worlds largest open-air concentration camp. This "camp" is interesting. Israel doesn't control all of the sides, yet you insist that Israel is imprisoning these folks. > Israel could solve all of its foreign policy problems if it let the populations in the West Bank have access to fresh, clean water. How about some supporting evidence for that claim? I note that the PLO turned down a separate state that wasn't big enough to suit them. And, why can't they develop their own access to fresh clean water, just as everyone else in the region has done? What? Only the Israelis have clean fresh water? What's stopping everyone else? It's always the Joooos.
    - seclorum 14y ago
      Israel maintains the Gaza Strip and West Bank as administrative regions under its domain. It does control the conditions in those areas, and does in fact impose apartheid conditions on millions of inhabitants of that region. No, fresh water is not available to the Palestinians in Israels camps. Israel regularly diverts water from those populations for use by its settlers.
      - anamax 14y ago
        > Israel maintains the Gaza Strip and West Bank as administrative regions under its domain. So? Israel doesn't keep anyone from leaving via other borders. > No, fresh water is not available to the Palestinians in Israels camps. Thanks for agreeing that your claim that giving them fresh water would solve all problems is wrong.

_djo_ 14y ago

I'm disappointed that Godwin's Law appeared so soon, the circumstances are not even remotely comparable. As I said above, this isn't about morality or whether Israel is right or wrong to occupy the West Bank, because that is not a real factor in this particular geopolitical strategic situation. This is purely about relative strategic postures and their implications for the Middle East. There is no cognitive dissonance in holding the views that Israel is a defensive nuclear power posing no threat to its neighbours, but its treatment of the Palestinians is wrong, and Iran should not acquire nuclear weapons. In fact that's the view held by many EU member states. It can be argued that the Palestinian situation contributes to instability and should be fairly resolved for that reason alone, but that does not and should not factor into an objective assessment of Iran's nuclear program. Iran seeks nuclear weapons because it wants to become the dominant power in the region and assume hegemony over its Arab neighbours, not because it worries about Palestinians. The fact that most of the Arab powers in the region are more afraid of Iran's nuclear program than they are of Israel's existing arsenal should be evidence enough of how those who live in the region, want stability in the region and have something to lose are willing to trust Israel's nuclear posture.

seclorum 14y ago
I'm disappointed that Godwin's Law appeared so soon, the circumstances are not even remotely comparable. Well, I beg you to see it from the perspective of the men, women and children who are currently imprisoned in the worlds largest open-air concentration camp. And frankly, that you cannot see the similarities belies a lot about your bias in this argument. As I said above, this isn't about morality or whether Israel is right or wrong to occupy the West Bank, because that is not a real factor in this particular geopolitical strategic situation. This is purely about relative strategic postures and their implications for the Middle East. Israel could solve all of its foreign policy problems if it let the populations in the West Bank have access to fresh, clean water. If they stopped encouraging the criminal settlers from encroaching on the lebensraum of the populations who were there before them (i.e. gave back the homes stolen). There is a lot more that could be done by Israel to settle tempers in the Mid East, besides writing viruses and attacking other, peaceful nations, rights to clean nuclear power.
- anamax 14y ago
  > Well, I beg you to see it from the perspective of the men, women and children who are currently imprisoned in the worlds largest open-air concentration camp. This "camp" is interesting. Israel doesn't control all of the sides, yet you insist that Israel is imprisoning these folks. > Israel could solve all of its foreign policy problems if it let the populations in the West Bank have access to fresh, clean water. How about some supporting evidence for that claim? I note that the PLO turned down a separate state that wasn't big enough to suit them. And, why can't they develop their own access to fresh clean water, just as everyone else in the region has done? What? Only the Israelis have clean fresh water? What's stopping everyone else? It's always the Joooos.
  - seclorum 14y ago
    Israel maintains the Gaza Strip and West Bank as administrative regions under its domain. It does control the conditions in those areas, and does in fact impose apartheid conditions on millions of inhabitants of that region. No, fresh water is not available to the Palestinians in Israels camps. Israel regularly diverts water from those populations for use by its settlers.
    - anamax 14y ago
      > Israel maintains the Gaza Strip and West Bank as administrative regions under its domain. So? Israel doesn't keep anyone from leaving via other borders. > No, fresh water is not available to the Palestinians in Israels camps. Thanks for agreeing that your claim that giving them fresh water would solve all problems is wrong.