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>So we agree it doesn’t scale. You can’t have 1,000 people each digging their own septic system around an apartment complex. What you’re proposing is adding cos

>So we agree it doesn’t scale. You can’t have 1,000 people each digging their own septic system around an apartment complex. What you’re proposing is adding cost and complexity to sewage in order to ensure you only pay for your shit. The asinine approach of using a rural septic system on a Manhattan apartment doesn't scale. Metering water consumed in most cases is pretty good at finding sewage use, and water metering exists in most apartments or at least every one I've lived in. >...complexity... On the contrary, your system is a complicated one that instead of metered sewage or water one has an army of tax collectors who meter our earnings & property & spending, who in practice toss people in a cage when they don't pay up rather than just stop the service. >Indeed, but literally all of the infrastructure up and down the supply chain that makes a $5k septic system available to you is. Sure but under my proposal everyone pays for services consumed, if you think rural people are stealing your infrastructure taxes to build septic systems by all means that's an argument to 'tax' at point of consumption, since we're cheating you apparently. (Now we know you really are against paying taxes for others poop!) >Ah, so you’d rather the poor pay interest on the ability to shit? Surreal. Well in practice they pay interest either way, privately or via inflation and public debt gov uses to expand their scope. >Yes, and I don’t think those people ought to be unable to shit in dignity. The libertarian dream is a nightmare Mentally ill and the poor shit in public largely because housing is unaffordable and it isn't convenient to have to hike a long way to take a shit. If you have democratic assent and are so sure people are eager to fund the shitting of the homeless, by all means go out and open a public shittery next to them, sounds like you'll get the support.

baseballdork 2y ago
> Metering water consumed in most cases is pretty good at finding sewage use, and water metering exists in most apartments or at least every one I've lived in. And this is how it already works in “most places”. Where it isn’t currently doing that you propose installing meters that aren’t already there, or determining pipe size to every user to determine the proper amount to charge for their shit. How is this not adding complexity? > your system is a complicated one Yes, the tax code is complicated for some small cohort of people, and that should be fixed. > Sure but under my proposal everyone pays for services consumed, if you think rural people are stealing your infrastructure taxes to build septic systems by all means that's an argument to 'tax' at point of consumption, since we're cheating you apparently. Sure, just as soon as you pay for all of the infrastructure between your community and the septic system. I wonder how many million or billions of dollars that would add up to. > Well in practice they pay interest either way, privately or via inflation and public debt gov uses to expand their scope. In practice they’re spending that money on something else. This isn’t about savvy savers losing a few percent to inflation. This is about people mortgaging a way to take a shit because they need to hook up their apartment to some company’s system. > Mentally ill and the poor shit in public largely because housing is unaffordable and it isn't convenient to have to hike a long way to take a shit. Huh, no restrooms available in the city? Oh wait, you have to be a customer to use a lot of those restrooms… so you have to pay to shit. Crazy how that isn’t working. It’s not libertarianism that’s wrong, it’s the damn poor and mentally ill.
- beaglesss 2y ago
  >And this is how it already works in “most places”. Where it isn’t currently doing that you propose installing meters that aren’t already there, or determining pipe size to every user to determine the proper amount to charge for their shit. How is this not adding complexity ? Sewage systems are built under permit virtually everywhere and the pipe size or drain units is documented. I live in about the least regulated place in the Continental US and even here my drain units are public record. Of course if everything is private connections could be added without permit since that burden falls privately. Of course if water is unmetered and public I think the average person even worse, with tragedy of the commons and the rich or corps consuming water in mass then taxing the poor to fund it. >Sure, just as soon as you pay for all of the infrastructure between your community and the septic system. I wonder how many million or billions of dollars that would add up to. This doesn't make sense. You tax this in pieces, you can 'tax' at consumption in pieces without each consumer building their own billion dollars in infrastructure. If your local companies are selling PVC pipes and Portland cement to country folk, why aren't you charging them for that infrastructure instead of complaining about maybe poorer people are getting a slight discount on poop system materials at your cost (which you seem to think is good anyway, personally im noy sure how much im robbing you when i privately buy portland and pvc, but corporations siphoning tax money via subsidies etc can be a problem). >In practice they’re spending that money on something else. This isn’t about savvy savers losing a few percent to inflation. This is about people mortgaging a way to take a shit because they need to hook up their apartment to some company’s system. ... Apartment owners mortgage the cost of their sewage pipe yes, as well as the toilet they sit on. If renting landlord pays for the pipes you rent and indirectly also pay for. This is the case whether you connect to a public or private system, taxes or not. You are not mortgaging the cost of the treatment system unless you own it. >Huh, no restrooms available in the city? Oh wait, you have to be a customer to use a lot of those restrooms… so you have to pay to shit. Crazy how that isn’t working. It’s not libertarianism that’s wrong, it’s the damn poor and mentally ill. If you want shitters for the homeless why don't you buy them some? Or if it's so wildly popular a cause why not solicit donations? Taxes haven't been very successful at solving the problem and you have it all figured out so you should spearhead it. How much are you committing today for shitters for the homeless?

baseballdork 2y ago

> Metering water consumed in most cases is pretty good at finding sewage use, and water metering exists in most apartments or at least every one I've lived in. And this is how it already works in “most places”. Where it isn’t currently doing that you propose installing meters that aren’t already there, or determining pipe size to every user to determine the proper amount to charge for their shit. How is this not adding complexity? > your system is a complicated one Yes, the tax code is complicated for some small cohort of people, and that should be fixed. > Sure but under my proposal everyone pays for services consumed, if you think rural people are stealing your infrastructure taxes to build septic systems by all means that's an argument to 'tax' at point of consumption, since we're cheating you apparently. Sure, just as soon as you pay for all of the infrastructure between your community and the septic system. I wonder how many million or billions of dollars that would add up to. > Well in practice they pay interest either way, privately or via inflation and public debt gov uses to expand their scope. In practice they’re spending that money on something else. This isn’t about savvy savers losing a few percent to inflation. This is about people mortgaging a way to take a shit because they need to hook up their apartment to some company’s system. > Mentally ill and the poor shit in public largely because housing is unaffordable and it isn't convenient to have to hike a long way to take a shit. Huh, no restrooms available in the city? Oh wait, you have to be a customer to use a lot of those restrooms… so you have to pay to shit. Crazy how that isn’t working. It’s not libertarianism that’s wrong, it’s the damn poor and mentally ill.

beaglesss 2y ago
>And this is how it already works in “most places”. Where it isn’t currently doing that you propose installing meters that aren’t already there, or determining pipe size to every user to determine the proper amount to charge for their shit. How is this not adding complexity ? Sewage systems are built under permit virtually everywhere and the pipe size or drain units is documented. I live in about the least regulated place in the Continental US and even here my drain units are public record. Of course if everything is private connections could be added without permit since that burden falls privately. Of course if water is unmetered and public I think the average person even worse, with tragedy of the commons and the rich or corps consuming water in mass then taxing the poor to fund it. >Sure, just as soon as you pay for all of the infrastructure between your community and the septic system. I wonder how many million or billions of dollars that would add up to. This doesn't make sense. You tax this in pieces, you can 'tax' at consumption in pieces without each consumer building their own billion dollars in infrastructure. If your local companies are selling PVC pipes and Portland cement to country folk, why aren't you charging them for that infrastructure instead of complaining about maybe poorer people are getting a slight discount on poop system materials at your cost (which you seem to think is good anyway, personally im noy sure how much im robbing you when i privately buy portland and pvc, but corporations siphoning tax money via subsidies etc can be a problem). >In practice they’re spending that money on something else. This isn’t about savvy savers losing a few percent to inflation. This is about people mortgaging a way to take a shit because they need to hook up their apartment to some company’s system. ... Apartment owners mortgage the cost of their sewage pipe yes, as well as the toilet they sit on. If renting landlord pays for the pipes you rent and indirectly also pay for. This is the case whether you connect to a public or private system, taxes or not. You are not mortgaging the cost of the treatment system unless you own it. >Huh, no restrooms available in the city? Oh wait, you have to be a customer to use a lot of those restrooms… so you have to pay to shit. Crazy how that isn’t working. It’s not libertarianism that’s wrong, it’s the damn poor and mentally ill. If you want shitters for the homeless why don't you buy them some? Or if it's so wildly popular a cause why not solicit donations? Taxes haven't been very successful at solving the problem and you have it all figured out so you should spearhead it. How much are you committing today for shitters for the homeless?