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>How does this work in Manhattan? How about for a single apartment complex? It doesn’t scale. Waste treatment system similar to many public systems. Charge by

>How does this work in Manhattan? How about for a single apartment complex? It doesn’t scale. Waste treatment system similar to many public systems. Charge by drain units, sewage pipe size, or maybe metered. Point is sewage treatment plant can be funded on individual apartment basis. > works if you’re in a low density area benefiting from the taxes pulled from high density areas. My area is far poorer than Manhattan but virtually everyone has a private septic system, and I've never seen poop in the street. You were previously paying for public poop now your just paying privately in lieu of publicly, and of course the homeless still probably shit in the street. Also rural septic systems are almost never publicly funded. >Something like 40% of Americans couldn’t field a $400 expense. In practice in places like Manhattan you'd be paying for sewage monthly (when I lived in city that charged cost of sewage it was about 40 of my water bill). In rural areas septic is usually owned as part of mortgage or as debt services, if one cannot pay outright. All of which is amortized pretty close to real cost of sewage most anywhere. >You’re in shock after discussing a place where it happens? I'm in shock because having lived in areas that charge individually for sewage, the very few that don't spend the $1-$2 a day are either brutally poor or mentally ill, its just not a thing that people like you poop in the streets anyplace I've lived that charges near full rate for sewage treatment. As it were, the vast majority given the $1.40 a day to spare, will pay it to not have to poop outside or let it accumulate in their home, and if unable or unwilling to do so it is nearly always a symptom of something else that public sewers won't solve.

baseballdork 2y ago
> Waste treatment system similar to many public systems. So we agree it doesn’t scale. You can’t have 1,000 people each digging their own septic system around an apartment complex. What you’re proposing is adding cost and complexity to sewage in order to ensure you only pay for your shit. > Also rural septic systems are almost never publicly funded. Indeed, but literally all of the infrastructure up and down the supply chain that makes a $5k septic system available to you is. > In rural areas septic is usually owned as part of mortgage or as debt services, if one cannot pay outright. Ah, so you’d rather the poor pay interest on the ability to shit? Surreal. > brutally poor or mentally ill Yes, and I don’t think those people ought to be unable to shit in dignity. The libertarian dream is a nightmare.
- beaglesss 2y ago
  >So we agree it doesn’t scale. You can’t have 1,000 people each digging their own septic system around an apartment complex. What you’re proposing is adding cost and complexity to sewage in order to ensure you only pay for your shit. The asinine approach of using a rural septic system on a Manhattan apartment doesn't scale. Metering water consumed in most cases is pretty good at finding sewage use, and water metering exists in most apartments or at least every one I've lived in. >...complexity... On the contrary, your system is a complicated one that instead of metered sewage or water one has an army of tax collectors who meter our earnings & property & spending, who in practice toss people in a cage when they don't pay up rather than just stop the service. >Indeed, but literally all of the infrastructure up and down the supply chain that makes a $5k septic system available to you is. Sure but under my proposal everyone pays for services consumed, if you think rural people are stealing your infrastructure taxes to build septic systems by all means that's an argument to 'tax' at point of consumption, since we're cheating you apparently. (Now we know you really are against paying taxes for others poop!) >Ah, so you’d rather the poor pay interest on the ability to shit? Surreal. Well in practice they pay interest either way, privately or via inflation and public debt gov uses to expand their scope. >Yes, and I don’t think those people ought to be unable to shit in dignity. The libertarian dream is a nightmare Mentally ill and the poor shit in public largely because housing is unaffordable and it isn't convenient to have to hike a long way to take a shit. If you have democratic assent and are so sure people are eager to fund the shitting of the homeless, by all means go out and open a public shittery next to them, sounds like you'll get the support.
  - baseballdork 2y ago
    > Metering water consumed in most cases is pretty good at finding sewage use, and water metering exists in most apartments or at least every one I've lived in. And this is how it already works in “most places”. Where it isn’t currently doing that you propose installing meters that aren’t already there, or determining pipe size to every user to determine the proper amount to charge for their shit. How is this not adding complexity? > your system is a complicated one Yes, the tax code is complicated for some small cohort of people, and that should be fixed. > Sure but under my proposal everyone pays for services consumed, if you think rural people are stealing your infrastructure taxes to build septic systems by all means that's an argument to 'tax' at point of consumption, since we're cheating you apparently. Sure, just as soon as you pay for all of the infrastructure between your community and the septic system. I wonder how many million or billions of dollars that would add up to. > Well in practice they pay interest either way, privately or via inflation and public debt gov uses to expand their scope. In practice they’re spending that money on something else. This isn’t about savvy savers losing a few percent to inflation. This is about people mortgaging a way to take a shit because they need to hook up their apartment to some company’s system. > Mentally ill and the poor shit in public largely because housing is unaffordable and it isn't convenient to have to hike a long way to take a shit. Huh, no restrooms available in the city? Oh wait, you have to be a customer to use a lot of those restrooms… so you have to pay to shit. Crazy how that isn’t working. It’s not libertarianism that’s wrong, it’s the damn poor and mentally ill.

baseballdork 2y ago

> Waste treatment system similar to many public systems. So we agree it doesn’t scale. You can’t have 1,000 people each digging their own septic system around an apartment complex. What you’re proposing is adding cost and complexity to sewage in order to ensure you only pay for your shit. > Also rural septic systems are almost never publicly funded. Indeed, but literally all of the infrastructure up and down the supply chain that makes a $5k septic system available to you is. > In rural areas septic is usually owned as part of mortgage or as debt services, if one cannot pay outright. Ah, so you’d rather the poor pay interest on the ability to shit? Surreal. > brutally poor or mentally ill Yes, and I don’t think those people ought to be unable to shit in dignity. The libertarian dream is a nightmare.

beaglesss 2y ago
>So we agree it doesn’t scale. You can’t have 1,000 people each digging their own septic system around an apartment complex. What you’re proposing is adding cost and complexity to sewage in order to ensure you only pay for your shit. The asinine approach of using a rural septic system on a Manhattan apartment doesn't scale. Metering water consumed in most cases is pretty good at finding sewage use, and water metering exists in most apartments or at least every one I've lived in. >...complexity... On the contrary, your system is a complicated one that instead of metered sewage or water one has an army of tax collectors who meter our earnings & property & spending, who in practice toss people in a cage when they don't pay up rather than just stop the service. >Indeed, but literally all of the infrastructure up and down the supply chain that makes a $5k septic system available to you is. Sure but under my proposal everyone pays for services consumed, if you think rural people are stealing your infrastructure taxes to build septic systems by all means that's an argument to 'tax' at point of consumption, since we're cheating you apparently. (Now we know you really are against paying taxes for others poop!) >Ah, so you’d rather the poor pay interest on the ability to shit? Surreal. Well in practice they pay interest either way, privately or via inflation and public debt gov uses to expand their scope. >Yes, and I don’t think those people ought to be unable to shit in dignity. The libertarian dream is a nightmare Mentally ill and the poor shit in public largely because housing is unaffordable and it isn't convenient to have to hike a long way to take a shit. If you have democratic assent and are so sure people are eager to fund the shitting of the homeless, by all means go out and open a public shittery next to them, sounds like you'll get the support.
- baseballdork 2y ago
  > Metering water consumed in most cases is pretty good at finding sewage use, and water metering exists in most apartments or at least every one I've lived in. And this is how it already works in “most places”. Where it isn’t currently doing that you propose installing meters that aren’t already there, or determining pipe size to every user to determine the proper amount to charge for their shit. How is this not adding complexity? > your system is a complicated one Yes, the tax code is complicated for some small cohort of people, and that should be fixed. > Sure but under my proposal everyone pays for services consumed, if you think rural people are stealing your infrastructure taxes to build septic systems by all means that's an argument to 'tax' at point of consumption, since we're cheating you apparently. Sure, just as soon as you pay for all of the infrastructure between your community and the septic system. I wonder how many million or billions of dollars that would add up to. > Well in practice they pay interest either way, privately or via inflation and public debt gov uses to expand their scope. In practice they’re spending that money on something else. This isn’t about savvy savers losing a few percent to inflation. This is about people mortgaging a way to take a shit because they need to hook up their apartment to some company’s system. > Mentally ill and the poor shit in public largely because housing is unaffordable and it isn't convenient to have to hike a long way to take a shit. Huh, no restrooms available in the city? Oh wait, you have to be a customer to use a lot of those restrooms… so you have to pay to shit. Crazy how that isn’t working. It’s not libertarianism that’s wrong, it’s the damn poor and mentally ill.