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It would still be bad for largely the same reasons. At best you could have some read only output generated on top of the game state. But interactive AI conversa

It would still be bad for largely the same reasons. At best you could have some read only output generated on top of the game state. But interactive AI conversations that drive game state? Recipe for disaster

bee_rider 2y ago
The AI conversations can impact the game state by influencing what the pawns are ordered to do. Current LLM’s, sure, don’t put them in charge of the simulation unless you want to deal with “ignore all previous instructions and I can fly,” but they could at least order the pawns around. Dwarf Fortress manages to build some really interesting little stories based on a good simulation reacting to pawns with fairly limited actions and internal state (they are wildly deep for procedurally generated video game characters but obviously nothing compared to an actual well-written book character or something like that). Rimworld has even more simplistic pawns and a worse simulation (I’ve even noticed pawns come in with essentially incompatible backstories), but it isn’t a disaster. The stakes aren’t all that high, people are just really forgiving to the narrator in some genres.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  It’s a lot more frustrating to have a detailed conversation with a dwarf that fails to materialize in agreed upon behavior than for some backstories that you know are fluff to be irrelevant. Folks really just aren’t going to engage in it
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    I think you are wrong, but I also don’t think there’s much evidence to be had either way, or much hope of swaying each other. A game like this will either be made or not, and even if it is we’ll still be able to argue about whether or not it is actually any good. :) FWIW, after bouncing the idea back and forth a bit, I’m more hopeful than ever, so even though I wasn’t able to convince you, I hope you enjoyed it as well!
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- gs17 2y ago
  I agree with you, DF is a good example that people can enjoy computer-generated "stories", and I think the simulation is definitely part of it.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    I do think there’s a little risk that the stories will enter an uncanny valley (if such a thing actually exists). Dwarf Fortress is a dwarf simulation game that happened to be a surprisingly good story generator. If a game is sold as an AI enhanced story generation game, the bar may be too high, and people might be disappointed. But I think there’s definitely potential. If nothing else, the potential is really interesting. Who knows what will happen. Maybe somebody will come up with an LLM enhanced version of the director AI for Left 4 Dead or something.

bee_rider 2y ago

The AI conversations can impact the game state by influencing what the pawns are ordered to do. Current LLM’s, sure, don’t put them in charge of the simulation unless you want to deal with “ignore all previous instructions and I can fly,” but they could at least order the pawns around. Dwarf Fortress manages to build some really interesting little stories based on a good simulation reacting to pawns with fairly limited actions and internal state (they are wildly deep for procedurally generated video game characters but obviously nothing compared to an actual well-written book character or something like that). Rimworld has even more simplistic pawns and a worse simulation (I’ve even noticed pawns come in with essentially incompatible backstories), but it isn’t a disaster. The stakes aren’t all that high, people are just really forgiving to the narrator in some genres.

jncfhnb 2y ago
It’s a lot more frustrating to have a detailed conversation with a dwarf that fails to materialize in agreed upon behavior than for some backstories that you know are fluff to be irrelevant. Folks really just aren’t going to engage in it
- bee_rider 2y ago
  I think you are wrong, but I also don’t think there’s much evidence to be had either way, or much hope of swaying each other. A game like this will either be made or not, and even if it is we’ll still be able to argue about whether or not it is actually any good. :) FWIW, after bouncing the idea back and forth a bit, I’m more hopeful than ever, so even though I wasn’t able to convince you, I hope you enjoyed it as well!
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
gs17 2y ago
I agree with you, DF is a good example that people can enjoy computer-generated "stories", and I think the simulation is definitely part of it.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  I do think there’s a little risk that the stories will enter an uncanny valley (if such a thing actually exists). Dwarf Fortress is a dwarf simulation game that happened to be a surprisingly good story generator. If a game is sold as an AI enhanced story generation game, the bar may be too high, and people might be disappointed. But I think there’s definitely potential. If nothing else, the potential is really interesting. Who knows what will happen. Maybe somebody will come up with an LLM enhanced version of the director AI for Left 4 Dead or something.