5 ms·

Does every American citizen implicitly endorse what the Biden admin supports right now in Palestine?

by Matl 2y ago

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Does every American citizen implicitly endorse what the Biden admin supports right now in Palestine? I must have missed the pro-Ukrainian protests, lawmakers and debates--online and all over the news--in Russia.
- Matl 2y ago
  You must also have missed the constant smearing of protesters as anti Semitic by American public officials, as well as mainstream media alike. Because I can assure you that coverage of pro-Ukrainian protests as unpatriotic happens in Russia too.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > must also have missed the constant smearing of protesters as anti Semitic by American public officials, as well as mainstream media alike Yes, people disagree. Vehemently. And in public. That's sort of the entire difference. > I can assure you that coverage of pro-Ukrainian protests as unpatriotic happens in Russia too Where these protesters are congregating that isn't inside a prison?
    - Matl 2y ago
      > Yes, people disagree. Vehemently. And in public Do you think when people as powerful as the U.S. President and all the cable networks smear protesters, do you think the protesters have an equal platform/power to dispute this and therefore it's a debate? My point is not to argue that Russia isn't authoritarian but that every country seeks to delegitimize those who disagree with its powerful. That does not mean that there aren't a lot of people who may disagree incl for example Snowden.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > when people as powerful as the U.S. President and all the cable networks smear protesters, do you think the protesters have an equal platform/power to dispute this and therefore it's a debate? Yes. I'm in New York. Israel/Palestine is enthusiastically debated in public spaces. And Presidents smear people and causes all the time. The fact that they're complaining about them and not ordering arrests is the salient difference. For a foreign policy issue, the war in Gaza has received a lot of attention, especially considering it's an election year. > my point is not to argue that Russia isn't authoritarian but that every country seeks to legitimize those who disagree with its powerful This is the essence of power. The point is how probable it is that the power succeeds. There is no free speech in Russia. Falsely conflating Snowden's situation with that of the Gaza protesters doesn't hold.
        Matl 2y ago
        The American government is the longest continually existing "regime" in the world. Unlike it, other governments do not conduct (serious) attempts to overthrow it and so it has the most secure institutions. Therefore it can afford to absorb more disagreement with it than other, much shorter-lived regimes can. This is why there can be a 'debate'. But as soon as any such debate threatens to actually change something, cops are deployed to beat people up, protesters are arrested and harassed and of course they are constantly smeared in the media. That is the real difference as far as I can see it. Don't get me wrong, I am part of the Western world and I'd like it to be true what you say, but why do things like this[1] happen then? 1 - https://www.newstatesman.com/diary/2024/04/cancelled-germany-yanis-varoufakis-israel-palestine https://www.newstatesman.com/diary/2024/04/cancelled-germany...
        jemmyw 2y ago
        > The American government is the longest continually existing "regime" in the world I'm fairly sure the regime in the UK has lasted longer, technically. You could say that the laws that enabled the current system came into place in 1707 with the Acts of Union, although the modern interpretation took time to come into effect. You could also argue that the supremacy of parliament and thus the beginning of the current regime started in 1688. The problem with continuous is that things do change over time, and the American system has also evolved since it was conceived.

Does every American citizen implicitly endorse what the Biden admin supports right now in Palestine?

by Matl 2y ago

Does every American citizen implicitly endorse what the Biden admin supports right now in Palestine?

> Does every American citizen implicitly endorse what the Biden admin supports right now in Palestine? I must have missed the pro-Ukrainian protests, lawmakers and debates--online and all over the news--in Russia.

Matl 2y ago
You must also have missed the constant smearing of protesters as anti Semitic by American public officials, as well as mainstream media alike. Because I can assure you that coverage of pro-Ukrainian protests as unpatriotic happens in Russia too.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > must also have missed the constant smearing of protesters as anti Semitic by American public officials, as well as mainstream media alike Yes, people disagree. Vehemently. And in public. That's sort of the entire difference. > I can assure you that coverage of pro-Ukrainian protests as unpatriotic happens in Russia too Where these protesters are congregating that isn't inside a prison?
  - Matl 2y ago
    > Yes, people disagree. Vehemently. And in public Do you think when people as powerful as the U.S. President and all the cable networks smear protesters, do you think the protesters have an equal platform/power to dispute this and therefore it's a debate? My point is not to argue that Russia isn't authoritarian but that every country seeks to delegitimize those who disagree with its powerful. That does not mean that there aren't a lot of people who may disagree incl for example Snowden.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > when people as powerful as the U.S. President and all the cable networks smear protesters, do you think the protesters have an equal platform/power to dispute this and therefore it's a debate? Yes. I'm in New York. Israel/Palestine is enthusiastically debated in public spaces. And Presidents smear people and causes all the time. The fact that they're complaining about them and not ordering arrests is the salient difference. For a foreign policy issue, the war in Gaza has received a lot of attention, especially considering it's an election year. > my point is not to argue that Russia isn't authoritarian but that every country seeks to legitimize those who disagree with its powerful This is the essence of power. The point is how probable it is that the power succeeds. There is no free speech in Russia. Falsely conflating Snowden's situation with that of the Gaza protesters doesn't hold.
      - Matl 2y ago
        The American government is the longest continually existing "regime" in the world. Unlike it, other governments do not conduct (serious) attempts to overthrow it and so it has the most secure institutions. Therefore it can afford to absorb more disagreement with it than other, much shorter-lived regimes can. This is why there can be a 'debate'. But as soon as any such debate threatens to actually change something, cops are deployed to beat people up, protesters are arrested and harassed and of course they are constantly smeared in the media. That is the real difference as far as I can see it. Don't get me wrong, I am part of the Western world and I'd like it to be true what you say, but why do things like this[1] happen then? 1 - https://www.newstatesman.com/diary/2024/04/cancelled-germany-yanis-varoufakis-israel-palestine https://www.newstatesman.com/diary/2024/04/cancelled-germany...
        jemmyw 2y ago
        > The American government is the longest continually existing "regime" in the world I'm fairly sure the regime in the UK has lasted longer, technically. You could say that the laws that enabled the current system came into place in 1707 with the Acts of Union, although the modern interpretation took time to come into effect. You could also argue that the supremacy of parliament and thus the beginning of the current regime started in 1688. The problem with continuous is that things do change over time, and the American system has also evolved since it was conceived.