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Will you cooperate if you receive a legal warrant from China, Russia, Iran or North Korea? Also, Telegram is accused in other things, like importing uncertifie

Will you cooperate if you receive a legal warrant from China, Russia, Iran or North Korea? Also, Telegram is accused in other things, like importing uncertified cryptographic tools. If you go to Gtihub, there are large deposits of uncertified cryptographic tools. Why ssh or openssl developers are not arrested? I am sure they do not have a proper certificate. As I guess, this is a typical case when the law enforcement bends the vaguely written laws. A law saying something like "it is illegal to assist commiting a crime" is a typical example of such vague law: until there is a court decision you cannot even know if some event was legal or illegal. And "assist" is also a very vague term.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Will you cooperate if you receive a legal warrant from China, Russia, Iran or North Korea? No. But after refusing it, I sure as hell wouldn't go there.
- danuker 2y ago
  > I sure as hell wouldn't go there. Don't even go close: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/23/belarus-diverts-ryanair-plane-to-arrest-blogger-says-opposition https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/23/belarus-divert...
  - mc32 2y ago
    When Snowden was escaping capture form the West, err, I mean, US, we, the US, err, the Obama admin, wanted to know which plane he was in to see of they could have it "diverted". Also, don't pretend to "go hiking" along the Iranian border...
- mistercheph 2y ago
  I don't know if I should be sad that the West is trending towards treating humans as China/Russia/Iran/NK do, or if I should be happy that geopolitical powers have one less thing they disagree about.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
regnull 2y ago
We are talking about France, no?
- codedokode 2y ago
  Is French law somehow special or superior compared to other countries legal systems?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Is French law somehow special or superior compared to other countries legal systems? Yes, France has a stronger rule of law than China, Russia or North Korea [1]. That doesn't mean their laws are inherently better. But their legal system is objectively superior when it comes to something like weighing a warrant. [1] https://elsevier-ssrn-document-store-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/11/11/29/ssrn_id1966257_code1231761.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEO3%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJHMEUCIQD0Ykqn5quQ9LVgrPiUtccbJ4YEKO4C69sjZR%2Fg%2F51E2QIgGr4biJiQsRWc%2F4NaIDB1abjo42j2NqLvnrmDz2BclSAqxgUI9v%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FARAEGgwzMDg0NzUzMDEyNTciDE%2BdgYAU%2BAYWRm12gyqaBdd8FR3BoAFbFxdA1ZjExTR1A4kGfA0%2Fb162Bhe70CnkW3KzBh03ghLNGtOJEwKQk6bpteOiQvUl2jH4YS%2B8NqiMl8dAfC4WUcKqbnwct1gE71Zw3PvVRe92XGhmXflXy4Lx6CdmE5lxX%2BbF%2FDyjufRbS8ssul3mRKfW0buY6gfarXD1OxmEWYl2vEqwyWiMsd8%2B9kdtcys4UiyewzQBQxC6eR0I3j440H1ycpGy2DctJ20ZJsBb1%2BRRRfkX49Lx%2BH8uhvAUrJNagM3QKwmHgda6YHuV8UEudqO%2FSG%2BX9hSNZi%2F8Quy7hSpZyMTwzBc%2BQHTR5rzHvOBQaPGjxBTPmW5soQ7MapEnnXa4%2B6mBTay6CP4cOGx5o6TsF3ZF0gXaH5l3SKbsS79zmSfWFe2VMsg8Ozt2CIcRpWTIszD1iVesma59m8%2F87yvzYits5eMIdFIgUgzXieJGq5BvNXg691xbHWQsAXv6WvJSKiS%2FCnSMZzrNcOUnhWOvdoJgtYTR0p2VtBxkpnCLhZdVV5bOBhmNEpt4scvFkne7kY1LcHaUBJpyE3V8IH6PTEJKPgurs0UnL756wO%2FHPhg%2FoHfKiffQVCeLPt3%2BmzpjTT7GDUvxi0eJYpMy7I1haYIRSDsAOOMFsHFwuxd75kaFbV1MLX5zUXsLDvI6uOLniJNb75IHx0j39Pzk1dkjDr%2Ba54IjuORLOrE3D7MnahhneKSB2RhtcqMj%2BGVkl8Ty1NUY1rZidtCXRw6XFak2g5CZEFsx8vd5zugyjZ4CttbqKwG90OWe4xuJrx7l0krWI6jDTBbR%2BjqEzj6nDoGytwpSuP%2Bcul%2FiIkhuBYCcEJe3YwQKheNB84ispJ6V8Cgk6LHvumHuAk%2Fi8V1v2t6oojDrx7O2BjqxAWsybRqNvFsVZa4JKKb7wRv%2F4vrokr9rSR9hAb2w40OZNL7KcE8A79SmSTTBMziVt5UlumFouKlLzH108tu6k3lnGOEFsEJ0YgVpwLEXygdNXrN523j1BVOcMlTptpn%2FNqxk%2FqwCn6YoOOFWadq4Jxxsqf%2FXSZvEJrMbl16zHmHhuL4VH2bPJOz8SmZG0c0WvnsOWpmhOQl8i2W1I5HuUDzot47bPIWeseu%2FmzdFQRzAcw%3D%3D&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20240826T203124Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAUPUUPRWERV4ITFQN%2F20240826%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=63cd2145bcc0f5fedb2f8d78cea73a13f0fe1716c13dc35ab62f0e2db993f656 https://elsevier-ssrn-document-store-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/1...
baybal2 2y ago
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mrtksn 2y ago
> China, Russia, Iran or North Korea? Probably no but I also would expect to face consequences if I go to the country whom court order I choose not to fulfill. It's the same thing with the USA in the crypto community, you either don't sell US citizens unregulated securities or you sell and avoid USA or any country that might extradite you to USA. I remember the days when the internet was the wild west, laws wouldn't apply and the cops lacked the tools to catch anyone or enforce anything. Those days are long gone, the rule of the thumb is that countries now have rules and tool for this stuff and if you break them better never ever visit these countries.
- Thorrez 2y ago
  >It's the same thing with the USA in the crypto community, you either don't sell US citizens When I read that at first, I thought crypto was short for cryptography, and you were referring to the crypto wars, back when most cryptography was classified as arms (weapons) in the US and it was illegal to distribute cryptographic software in many cases. One of my instructors in college attended a US college, but during his PhD would drive to Canada to write all the code, so that the code could be legally distributed. If it was written in the US, it couldn't be.
  - mrtksn 2y ago
    Yes, US does have export regulations on cryptography and you can indeed get in trouble with the US for math, App developers who distribute through App Stores would go through the paperwork of it to stay compliant.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Will you cooperate if you receive a legal warrant from China, Russia, Iran or North Korea? No. But after refusing it, I sure as hell wouldn't go there.

danuker 2y ago
> I sure as hell wouldn't go there. Don't even go close: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/23/belarus-diverts-ryanair-plane-to-arrest-blogger-says-opposition https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/23/belarus-divert...
- mc32 2y ago
  When Snowden was escaping capture form the West, err, I mean, US, we, the US, err, the Obama admin, wanted to know which plane he was in to see of they could have it "diverted". Also, don't pretend to "go hiking" along the Iranian border...
mistercheph 2y ago
I don't know if I should be sad that the West is trending towards treating humans as China/Russia/Iran/NK do, or if I should be happy that geopolitical powers have one less thing they disagree about.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

regnull 2y ago

We are talking about France, no?

codedokode 2y ago
Is French law somehow special or superior compared to other countries legal systems?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Is French law somehow special or superior compared to other countries legal systems? Yes, France has a stronger rule of law than China, Russia or North Korea [1]. That doesn't mean their laws are inherently better. But their legal system is objectively superior when it comes to something like weighing a warrant. [1] https://elsevier-ssrn-document-store-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/11/11/29/ssrn_id1966257_code1231761.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEO3%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJHMEUCIQD0Ykqn5quQ9LVgrPiUtccbJ4YEKO4C69sjZR%2Fg%2F51E2QIgGr4biJiQsRWc%2F4NaIDB1abjo42j2NqLvnrmDz2BclSAqxgUI9v%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FARAEGgwzMDg0NzUzMDEyNTciDE%2BdgYAU%2BAYWRm12gyqaBdd8FR3BoAFbFxdA1ZjExTR1A4kGfA0%2Fb162Bhe70CnkW3KzBh03ghLNGtOJEwKQk6bpteOiQvUl2jH4YS%2B8NqiMl8dAfC4WUcKqbnwct1gE71Zw3PvVRe92XGhmXflXy4Lx6CdmE5lxX%2BbF%2FDyjufRbS8ssul3mRKfW0buY6gfarXD1OxmEWYl2vEqwyWiMsd8%2B9kdtcys4UiyewzQBQxC6eR0I3j440H1ycpGy2DctJ20ZJsBb1%2BRRRfkX49Lx%2BH8uhvAUrJNagM3QKwmHgda6YHuV8UEudqO%2FSG%2BX9hSNZi%2F8Quy7hSpZyMTwzBc%2BQHTR5rzHvOBQaPGjxBTPmW5soQ7MapEnnXa4%2B6mBTay6CP4cOGx5o6TsF3ZF0gXaH5l3SKbsS79zmSfWFe2VMsg8Ozt2CIcRpWTIszD1iVesma59m8%2F87yvzYits5eMIdFIgUgzXieJGq5BvNXg691xbHWQsAXv6WvJSKiS%2FCnSMZzrNcOUnhWOvdoJgtYTR0p2VtBxkpnCLhZdVV5bOBhmNEpt4scvFkne7kY1LcHaUBJpyE3V8IH6PTEJKPgurs0UnL756wO%2FHPhg%2FoHfKiffQVCeLPt3%2BmzpjTT7GDUvxi0eJYpMy7I1haYIRSDsAOOMFsHFwuxd75kaFbV1MLX5zUXsLDvI6uOLniJNb75IHx0j39Pzk1dkjDr%2Ba54IjuORLOrE3D7MnahhneKSB2RhtcqMj%2BGVkl8Ty1NUY1rZidtCXRw6XFak2g5CZEFsx8vd5zugyjZ4CttbqKwG90OWe4xuJrx7l0krWI6jDTBbR%2BjqEzj6nDoGytwpSuP%2Bcul%2FiIkhuBYCcEJe3YwQKheNB84ispJ6V8Cgk6LHvumHuAk%2Fi8V1v2t6oojDrx7O2BjqxAWsybRqNvFsVZa4JKKb7wRv%2F4vrokr9rSR9hAb2w40OZNL7KcE8A79SmSTTBMziVt5UlumFouKlLzH108tu6k3lnGOEFsEJ0YgVpwLEXygdNXrN523j1BVOcMlTptpn%2FNqxk%2FqwCn6YoOOFWadq4Jxxsqf%2FXSZvEJrMbl16zHmHhuL4VH2bPJOz8SmZG0c0WvnsOWpmhOQl8i2W1I5HuUDzot47bPIWeseu%2FmzdFQRzAcw%3D%3D&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20240826T203124Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAUPUUPRWERV4ITFQN%2F20240826%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=63cd2145bcc0f5fedb2f8d78cea73a13f0fe1716c13dc35ab62f0e2db993f656 https://elsevier-ssrn-document-store-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/1...

baybal2 2y ago

[dead]

mrtksn 2y ago

> China, Russia, Iran or North Korea? Probably no but I also would expect to face consequences if I go to the country whom court order I choose not to fulfill. It's the same thing with the USA in the crypto community, you either don't sell US citizens unregulated securities or you sell and avoid USA or any country that might extradite you to USA. I remember the days when the internet was the wild west, laws wouldn't apply and the cops lacked the tools to catch anyone or enforce anything. Those days are long gone, the rule of the thumb is that countries now have rules and tool for this stuff and if you break them better never ever visit these countries.

Thorrez 2y ago
>It's the same thing with the USA in the crypto community, you either don't sell US citizens When I read that at first, I thought crypto was short for cryptography, and you were referring to the crypto wars, back when most cryptography was classified as arms (weapons) in the US and it was illegal to distribute cryptographic software in many cases. One of my instructors in college attended a US college, but during his PhD would drive to Canada to write all the code, so that the code could be legally distributed. If it was written in the US, it couldn't be.
- mrtksn 2y ago
  Yes, US does have export regulations on cryptography and you can indeed get in trouble with the US for math, App developers who distribute through App Stores would go through the paperwork of it to stay compliant.