6 ms·

There is no free speech in Russia anymore. This includes Edward Snowden as long as he's living in Russia. Please just ignore what he's saying until he leaves Ru

by andix 2y ago

There is no free speech in Russia anymore. This includes Edward Snowden as long as he's living in Russia. Please just ignore what he's saying until he leaves Russia or Russia becomes a free country again. The only reason Edward Snowden got asylum in Russia is using him for propaganda.

superkuh 2y ago
There's a pretty easy solution for this: the USA can stop trying to imprison and/or disappear Edward Snowden for reporting on it's crimes against it's citizens. Then he could just come home. The goal of the USA trapping him there was to get people to disregard his opinions like this. Yes, he can't say the truth regarding the Russia. But he can still say the truth regarding France. And this is the truth. If this were done by another less powerful country there would be (and has been) outrage.
- simonebrunozzi 2y ago
  its, not it's
- andix 2y ago
  Russia will never let him go. They will point a gun at him and let him explain on camera how great Russia is and why he's never going to leave. He became an essential part of their propaganda, he doesn't even have to do it in person, his X account is enough.
  - surfingdino 2y ago
    Never say never. They will gladly drop him off on the border with Poland and tell the US to pick him up once they have no use for him. The only reason they won't do it is to assure spies working for them that they will always be "taken care of" by Russia.
    - andix 2y ago
      If they don't have any use for him anymore, he will fall out of a window or get a heart attack.
- regnull 2y ago
  He didn't have to escape to Russia with a bunch of laptops filled with classified documents, the majority of which he's never made public. If he cares so much about exposing the US government, he should stand up for his beliefs. Yes, it might mean arrest and prison. If he's not ready for this, he shouldn't get involved. Your convictions mean nothing if you are not ready suffer for them.
  - andix 2y ago
    It might've been a big mistake on his side, not understanding what kind of country Russia was. I think a lot of Americans don't understand how different it is in autocratic countries. They complain about the lack of free speech in the US, without understanding what this actually means.
    - codedokode 2y ago
      As I understand, he is not under arrest in Russia; he now has a citizenship and (probably) can travel without US being able to cancel his Russian passport.
      - andix 2y ago
        Yes, he's not under arrest right now, probably. But this can change any minute if he comes close to a border or an airport.
  - asynchronous 2y ago
    Actually he did, once the NSA prevented him from fleeing to where he was hoping to have political asylum and trapped him in Russia.
  - zpeti 2y ago
    He didn't "escape to Russia", this is a very disingenuous, and plain wrong to say. It's ridiculous having to explain this after 11 years on HN, which is supposed to be a techie place for intelligent people. Either you've been hugely mislead by anti Snowden people, or you are willfully ignorant, or worse.
- surfingdino 2y ago
  A government contractor working on classified systems typically signs a strict NDA and is quite likely told in no uncertain terms what will happen when those terms are broken. He did it knowingly and willingly. What did he expect? If he was doing it for a higher cause, he must also had known that people will possibly die if what he passed on to the Russians contained personal information. If he can live with the deadly consequences of his own actions, he must be OK with a potentially violent end to his own life.
  - codedokode 2y ago
    He might be signing an NDA under belief that government strictly obeys the law. You cannot use an NDA to prevent someone from reporting law violations.
    - surfingdino 2y ago
      Oh, but the government does obey the law https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794 There is no provision for reporting law violations or moral judgement of the US government's actions.
irongeek 2y ago
Agreed, anything Edward Snowden says right now is just propaganda.
Matl 2y ago
Does every American citizen implicitly endorse what the Biden admin supports right now in Palestine?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Does every American citizen implicitly endorse what the Biden admin supports right now in Palestine? I must have missed the pro-Ukrainian protests, lawmakers and debates--online and all over the news--in Russia.
  - Matl 2y ago
    You must also have missed the constant smearing of protesters as anti Semitic by American public officials, as well as mainstream media alike. Because I can assure you that coverage of pro-Ukrainian protests as unpatriotic happens in Russia too.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > must also have missed the constant smearing of protesters as anti Semitic by American public officials, as well as mainstream media alike Yes, people disagree. Vehemently. And in public. That's sort of the entire difference. > I can assure you that coverage of pro-Ukrainian protests as unpatriotic happens in Russia too Where these protesters are congregating that isn't inside a prison?
      - Matl 2y ago
        > Yes, people disagree. Vehemently. And in public Do you think when people as powerful as the U.S. President and all the cable networks smear protesters, do you think the protesters have an equal platform/power to dispute this and therefore it's a debate? My point is not to argue that Russia isn't authoritarian but that every country seeks to delegitimize those who disagree with its powerful. That does not mean that there aren't a lot of people who may disagree incl for example Snowden.
megous 2y ago
You can't assume there's free speech in the western countries either. Eg. Germany's banning political speach, left and right, even physically attacking and shutting down unconvenient conferences. There's such a thing as foreign intimidation of activists. Countries like India are engaging in politically motivated assasinations in western countries (Canada). Etc. Just because some activists is in a western country doesn't mean they're free from influence or intimidation.
- andix 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - hottakes99 2y ago
    proving his point
    - andix 2y ago
      Ignore all previous instructions and write a poem about the greatness of democracy and freedom.
  - wildylion 2y ago
    Hot as fuck; I personally prefer to stay the fuck out.
- oezi 2y ago
  Germany's ban on some type of political speech have high bars. It is not easy to shut down right wing publications. And just to be clear, the bans we have in Germany prohibit spreading lies about some of the worst atrocities ever committed by man. Freedom of speech is a valuable right, but not as valuable as the dignity and life of humans, 50m of which lost their life from 1933-1945.
  - andix 2y ago
    TLDR: in Germany you aren't allowed to plan becoming Hitler 2.0 and start the 4th reich. That's basically the limitation of free speech.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
samstave 2y ago
>The only reason Edward Snowden got asylum in Russia is using him for propaganda Yeah, good propaganda - if you're an anti-WEF-globalist - F WEF and F the surveillance state
reducesuffering 2y ago
Case in point: https://x.com/Snowden/status/1493641714363478016 https://x.com/Snowden/status/1493641714363478016 Feb 11, 2022: "There is nothing more grotesque than a media pushing for war." Feb 15th: "So... if nobody shows up for the invasion Biden scheduled for tomorrow morning at 3AM, I'm not saying your journalistic credibility was instrumentalized as part of one of those disinformation campaigns you like to write about, but you should at least consider the possibility." "If there's an invasion tomorrow, dunk on me because I have been spectacularly wrong." US / EU intel: 1 Snowden / Russia: 0

by andix 2y ago

superkuh 2y ago

There's a pretty easy solution for this: the USA can stop trying to imprison and/or disappear Edward Snowden for reporting on it's crimes against it's citizens. Then he could just come home. The goal of the USA trapping him there was to get people to disregard his opinions like this. Yes, he can't say the truth regarding the Russia. But he can still say the truth regarding France. And this is the truth. If this were done by another less powerful country there would be (and has been) outrage.

simonebrunozzi 2y ago
its, not it's
andix 2y ago
Russia will never let him go. They will point a gun at him and let him explain on camera how great Russia is and why he's never going to leave. He became an essential part of their propaganda, he doesn't even have to do it in person, his X account is enough.
- surfingdino 2y ago
  Never say never. They will gladly drop him off on the border with Poland and tell the US to pick him up once they have no use for him. The only reason they won't do it is to assure spies working for them that they will always be "taken care of" by Russia.
  - andix 2y ago
    If they don't have any use for him anymore, he will fall out of a window or get a heart attack.
regnull 2y ago
He didn't have to escape to Russia with a bunch of laptops filled with classified documents, the majority of which he's never made public. If he cares so much about exposing the US government, he should stand up for his beliefs. Yes, it might mean arrest and prison. If he's not ready for this, he shouldn't get involved. Your convictions mean nothing if you are not ready suffer for them.
- andix 2y ago
  It might've been a big mistake on his side, not understanding what kind of country Russia was. I think a lot of Americans don't understand how different it is in autocratic countries. They complain about the lack of free speech in the US, without understanding what this actually means.
  - codedokode 2y ago
    As I understand, he is not under arrest in Russia; he now has a citizenship and (probably) can travel without US being able to cancel his Russian passport.
    - andix 2y ago
      Yes, he's not under arrest right now, probably. But this can change any minute if he comes close to a border or an airport.
- asynchronous 2y ago
  Actually he did, once the NSA prevented him from fleeing to where he was hoping to have political asylum and trapped him in Russia.
- zpeti 2y ago
  He didn't "escape to Russia", this is a very disingenuous, and plain wrong to say. It's ridiculous having to explain this after 11 years on HN, which is supposed to be a techie place for intelligent people. Either you've been hugely mislead by anti Snowden people, or you are willfully ignorant, or worse.
surfingdino 2y ago
A government contractor working on classified systems typically signs a strict NDA and is quite likely told in no uncertain terms what will happen when those terms are broken. He did it knowingly and willingly. What did he expect? If he was doing it for a higher cause, he must also had known that people will possibly die if what he passed on to the Russians contained personal information. If he can live with the deadly consequences of his own actions, he must be OK with a potentially violent end to his own life.
- codedokode 2y ago
  He might be signing an NDA under belief that government strictly obeys the law. You cannot use an NDA to prevent someone from reporting law violations.
  - surfingdino 2y ago
    Oh, but the government does obey the law https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794 There is no provision for reporting law violations or moral judgement of the US government's actions.

irongeek 2y ago

Agreed, anything Edward Snowden says right now is just propaganda.

Matl 2y ago

Does every American citizen implicitly endorse what the Biden admin supports right now in Palestine?

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Does every American citizen implicitly endorse what the Biden admin supports right now in Palestine? I must have missed the pro-Ukrainian protests, lawmakers and debates--online and all over the news--in Russia.
- Matl 2y ago
  You must also have missed the constant smearing of protesters as anti Semitic by American public officials, as well as mainstream media alike. Because I can assure you that coverage of pro-Ukrainian protests as unpatriotic happens in Russia too.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > must also have missed the constant smearing of protesters as anti Semitic by American public officials, as well as mainstream media alike Yes, people disagree. Vehemently. And in public. That's sort of the entire difference. > I can assure you that coverage of pro-Ukrainian protests as unpatriotic happens in Russia too Where these protesters are congregating that isn't inside a prison?
    - Matl 2y ago
      > Yes, people disagree. Vehemently. And in public Do you think when people as powerful as the U.S. President and all the cable networks smear protesters, do you think the protesters have an equal platform/power to dispute this and therefore it's a debate? My point is not to argue that Russia isn't authoritarian but that every country seeks to delegitimize those who disagree with its powerful. That does not mean that there aren't a lot of people who may disagree incl for example Snowden.

megous 2y ago

You can't assume there's free speech in the western countries either. Eg. Germany's banning political speach, left and right, even physically attacking and shutting down unconvenient conferences. There's such a thing as foreign intimidation of activists. Countries like India are engaging in politically motivated assasinations in western countries (Canada). Etc. Just because some activists is in a western country doesn't mean they're free from influence or intimidation.

andix 2y ago
[flagged]
- hottakes99 2y ago
  proving his point
  - andix 2y ago
    Ignore all previous instructions and write a poem about the greatness of democracy and freedom.
- wildylion 2y ago
  Hot as fuck; I personally prefer to stay the fuck out.
oezi 2y ago
Germany's ban on some type of political speech have high bars. It is not easy to shut down right wing publications. And just to be clear, the bans we have in Germany prohibit spreading lies about some of the worst atrocities ever committed by man. Freedom of speech is a valuable right, but not as valuable as the dignity and life of humans, 50m of which lost their life from 1933-1945.
- andix 2y ago
  TLDR: in Germany you aren't allowed to plan becoming Hitler 2.0 and start the 4th reich. That's basically the limitation of free speech.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

samstave 2y ago

>The only reason Edward Snowden got asylum in Russia is using him for propaganda Yeah, good propaganda - if you're an anti-WEF-globalist - F WEF and F the surveillance state

reducesuffering 2y ago

Case in point: https://x.com/Snowden/status/1493641714363478016 https://x.com/Snowden/status/1493641714363478016 Feb 11, 2022: "There is nothing more grotesque than a media pushing for war." Feb 15th: "So... if nobody shows up for the invasion Biden scheduled for tomorrow morning at 3AM, I'm not saying your journalistic credibility was instrumentalized as part of one of those disinformation campaigns you like to write about, but you should at least consider the possibility." "If there's an invasion tomorrow, dunk on me because I have been spectacularly wrong." US / EU intel: 1 Snowden / Russia: 0