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I don't think Harry Potter will stand the test of time that well. In the world of Harry Potter, there are no cell phones, no internet, no Google and no AI. For

I don't think Harry Potter will stand the test of time that well. In the world of Harry Potter, there are no cell phones, no internet, no Google and no AI. For my generation that was no issue at all when we got into the books, because the Internet were fairly obscure in 1997 (as in, not something you would use on a daily basis), Google was just a postdoc project and of course kids didn't have cellphones. 7 books later, it seemed fairly strange that the characters in this magical place didn't have access to the things we used every day. For kids born today? They will grow in the world where it is perfectly normal to talk with a computer that is smarter than they are. That will not be a wow experience like the first time you talked with an AI. It will be completely normal, entirely unsurprising, just like you expect there to be light when you push the light switch. Their world will be far more magical than the one we grew up in. But Harry Potter is stuck in time, forever suspended in the late 1990's as some fly in amber. Now imagine you pick up a book supposedly full of magic and many wonders. And then the characters have to search through books by reading them until they happen to find the piece of information they want. Thats already laughable to me. How much more so to kids who grew up with talking computers and touch screen phones? Where, of course, the pictures move and you can talk to them. I could be entirely of base here, but one of the great things about the Harry Potter series was the feeling of Magic. Is the Magic going to be there for future generations?

telotortium 2y ago
> And then the characters have to search through books by reading them until they happen to find the piece of information they want. Thats already laughable to me. If Google keeps on declining, that experience will become even more relevant in the future. Most of the information the kids need is in a book somewhere, but often in the restricted section or perhaps not in the library at all, which is quite analogous to the dark web or even just obscure websites that are either unindexed or downranked enough that they might as well be.
- tomjen3 2y ago
  Kids will use perplexity instead if Google does not surface enough good results.
- flyinghamster 2y ago
  > Most of the information the kids need is in a book somewhere, but often in the restricted section or perhaps not in the library at all A problem that is getting worse with politically-motivated "protect the children" witch hunts bringing book bans to the Land of the Free. Nobody shooed me away from the grown-up side of the library when I was a kid.
  - lelanthran 2y ago
    > Nobody shooed me away from the grown-up side of the library when I was a kid. Me neither, but the grown-up side of the library back then did not have instructional books for teenagers on how to have homosexual intercourse. In fact, instructions on having intercourse of any sort weren't in the grown-up side of any library I went to in the 80s. I'd be very surprised if you went to a library that did direct teens and younger to instructions on having intercourse.
    - solumunus 2y ago
      Why is it a problem for teenagers to learn about sex? A thing that almost every human on earth engages in, with the desire to do so emerging in their teenage years… It seems completely obvious and normal.
      - lelanthran 2y ago
        > Why is it a problem for teenagers to learn about sex? I didn't say it is. It's a problem when a group of adults outside of the formal education system wants to provide instructional material to children against their parents wishes. I was pointing out that libraries make a call on what legal material to stock and what not to stock. The unstocked material is not in any sense of the word 'banned'. You are free to provide that material to anyone.
IncreasePosts 2y ago
Why did Shakespeare remain popular in the age of the atom bomb? Wasn't every new reader in the 1960s just thinking "Hey, why doesn't Macbeth just nuke Macduff?"
- tomjen3 2y ago
  Good point. Harry Potter is about a friend group fighting evil in a world of magic. If there is no magic, if in fact that world is less magical than the real world, then a big part of the appeal of the book will be lost. Magic is not a big part of Shakespear, and the part that is (Ghost, fairies) are most dissimilar to the magic we have since created. I also think that Sherlock will continue to remain popular because the appeal of the stories - who did it and how did the detective figure that out - has not fundamentally changed.
  - js8 2y ago
    > I also think that Sherlock will continue to remain popular because the appeal of the stories I am not sure Sherlock stories are that good.. I think what is really compelling is Sherlock as a character (at least for me). So perhaps the answer is that the characters are what makes it compelling even today.
- VancouverMan 2y ago
  I don't think that Shakespeare's works have been popular (in the sense of many people wanting to voluntarily consume them) for many generations. Yes, most people even today are familiar with those works to some extent, but that's just an artifact of those people being forced to consume those works repeatedly in high school and possibly again in college or university. When I was in high school in Canada decades ago, almost none of the students liked studying those works. To most people, they were generally incomprehensible, and the stories and characters were nearly impossible to relate to or to care about. A couple of the English teachers I had back then openly admitted to not like those works, too, and only taught them because the curriculum forced them to be taught. Even among those who claim to "like Shakespeare", they seem to be driven more by wanting to feel "highbrow" rather than any genuine appreciation for the works.
ckemere 2y ago
My daughter recently read through the “Nancy Drew Diaries”. It turns out they took the original Nancy Drew books, including settings, and redid them in a cell phone/ early smartphone world, and they’re still fun. It’s an interesting concept!
lelanthran 2y ago
> I don't think Harry Potter will stand the test of time that well. In the world of Harry Potter, there are no cell phones, no internet, no Google and no AI. Books and stories that stand the test of time do so in spite of aging. By that, I mean that $FOO is just so damn good that it captures the imagination completely and fully. There were no television sets in Grimm fairy tales, and they're still being retold. There were no cellphones in Shrek, the last movie was made in 2019, and those ears are still recognisable to my child, born after 2019! For books and stories to age well they don't need to be very relatable to the reader (although it helps), they need to be good! A further argument is that, to be relatable, technology is not needed. There is not problem, right now, reading a book or a story written in 2024 that is set in (for example) 1960. Some very popular recent books/stories/movies/series were set in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Being relatable is neither necessary nor sufficient to aging well.
rpdillon 2y ago
As an aside from your core point about tech, I don't think Harry Potter's universe is particularly well-designed or thoughtful. I mean, I haven't actually read Harry Potter, but having watched the movies and talked to my son who has read the books a few times, the magic system seems entirely inconsistent and capricious, and is one of my bigger gripes with the story coming from more mature authors like Brandon Sanderson that build out much more consistent and believable fantasy worlds. I have no idea whether this will affect the work's longevity, but it sure affects my desire to read it.
- lyu07282 2y ago
  You might enjoy HPMOR then, what you described is kind of the whole point of it. https://hpmor.com/ https://hpmor.com/
  - rpdillon 2y ago
    Yes! My son finished the books a couple of times over, but now is dedicated to HP fan fiction, entirely beause he read Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. It was a suggestion from a friend a few years back, but I very much appreciate you mentioning it here since it might be nice read for someone else as well.
- lelanthran 2y ago
  > t having watched the movies and talked to my son who has read the books a few times, the magic system seems entirely inconsistent and capricious, I agree. The magic in Harry Potter is used almost purely as plot armor. Why does this $MAGIC work but not that $MAGIC? Because the plot requires it. It's not a good example of universe building at all. The approach in the discworld novels is a lot better.

telotortium 2y ago

> And then the characters have to search through books by reading them until they happen to find the piece of information they want. Thats already laughable to me. If Google keeps on declining, that experience will become even more relevant in the future. Most of the information the kids need is in a book somewhere, but often in the restricted section or perhaps not in the library at all, which is quite analogous to the dark web or even just obscure websites that are either unindexed or downranked enough that they might as well be.

tomjen3 2y ago
Kids will use perplexity instead if Google does not surface enough good results.
flyinghamster 2y ago
> Most of the information the kids need is in a book somewhere, but often in the restricted section or perhaps not in the library at all A problem that is getting worse with politically-motivated "protect the children" witch hunts bringing book bans to the Land of the Free. Nobody shooed me away from the grown-up side of the library when I was a kid.
- lelanthran 2y ago
  > Nobody shooed me away from the grown-up side of the library when I was a kid. Me neither, but the grown-up side of the library back then did not have instructional books for teenagers on how to have homosexual intercourse. In fact, instructions on having intercourse of any sort weren't in the grown-up side of any library I went to in the 80s. I'd be very surprised if you went to a library that did direct teens and younger to instructions on having intercourse.
  - solumunus 2y ago
    Why is it a problem for teenagers to learn about sex? A thing that almost every human on earth engages in, with the desire to do so emerging in their teenage years… It seems completely obvious and normal.
    - lelanthran 2y ago
      > Why is it a problem for teenagers to learn about sex? I didn't say it is. It's a problem when a group of adults outside of the formal education system wants to provide instructional material to children against their parents wishes. I was pointing out that libraries make a call on what legal material to stock and what not to stock. The unstocked material is not in any sense of the word 'banned'. You are free to provide that material to anyone.

IncreasePosts 2y ago

Why did Shakespeare remain popular in the age of the atom bomb? Wasn't every new reader in the 1960s just thinking "Hey, why doesn't Macbeth just nuke Macduff?"

tomjen3 2y ago
Good point. Harry Potter is about a friend group fighting evil in a world of magic. If there is no magic, if in fact that world is less magical than the real world, then a big part of the appeal of the book will be lost. Magic is not a big part of Shakespear, and the part that is (Ghost, fairies) are most dissimilar to the magic we have since created. I also think that Sherlock will continue to remain popular because the appeal of the stories - who did it and how did the detective figure that out - has not fundamentally changed.
- js8 2y ago
  > I also think that Sherlock will continue to remain popular because the appeal of the stories I am not sure Sherlock stories are that good.. I think what is really compelling is Sherlock as a character (at least for me). So perhaps the answer is that the characters are what makes it compelling even today.
VancouverMan 2y ago
I don't think that Shakespeare's works have been popular (in the sense of many people wanting to voluntarily consume them) for many generations. Yes, most people even today are familiar with those works to some extent, but that's just an artifact of those people being forced to consume those works repeatedly in high school and possibly again in college or university. When I was in high school in Canada decades ago, almost none of the students liked studying those works. To most people, they were generally incomprehensible, and the stories and characters were nearly impossible to relate to or to care about. A couple of the English teachers I had back then openly admitted to not like those works, too, and only taught them because the curriculum forced them to be taught. Even among those who claim to "like Shakespeare", they seem to be driven more by wanting to feel "highbrow" rather than any genuine appreciation for the works.

ckemere 2y ago

My daughter recently read through the “Nancy Drew Diaries”. It turns out they took the original Nancy Drew books, including settings, and redid them in a cell phone/ early smartphone world, and they’re still fun. It’s an interesting concept!

lelanthran 2y ago

> I don't think Harry Potter will stand the test of time that well. In the world of Harry Potter, there are no cell phones, no internet, no Google and no AI. Books and stories that stand the test of time do so in spite of aging. By that, I mean that $FOO is just so damn good that it captures the imagination completely and fully. There were no television sets in Grimm fairy tales, and they're still being retold. There were no cellphones in Shrek, the last movie was made in 2019, and those ears are still recognisable to my child, born after 2019! For books and stories to age well they don't need to be very relatable to the reader (although it helps), they need to be good! A further argument is that, to be relatable, technology is not needed. There is not problem, right now, reading a book or a story written in 2024 that is set in (for example) 1960. Some very popular recent books/stories/movies/series were set in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Being relatable is neither necessary nor sufficient to aging well.

rpdillon 2y ago

As an aside from your core point about tech, I don't think Harry Potter's universe is particularly well-designed or thoughtful. I mean, I haven't actually read Harry Potter, but having watched the movies and talked to my son who has read the books a few times, the magic system seems entirely inconsistent and capricious, and is one of my bigger gripes with the story coming from more mature authors like Brandon Sanderson that build out much more consistent and believable fantasy worlds. I have no idea whether this will affect the work's longevity, but it sure affects my desire to read it.

lyu07282 2y ago
You might enjoy HPMOR then, what you described is kind of the whole point of it. https://hpmor.com/ https://hpmor.com/
- rpdillon 2y ago
  Yes! My son finished the books a couple of times over, but now is dedicated to HP fan fiction, entirely beause he read Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. It was a suggestion from a friend a few years back, but I very much appreciate you mentioning it here since it might be nice read for someone else as well.
lelanthran 2y ago
> t having watched the movies and talked to my son who has read the books a few times, the magic system seems entirely inconsistent and capricious, I agree. The magic in Harry Potter is used almost purely as plot armor. Why does this $MAGIC work but not that $MAGIC? Because the plot requires it. It's not a good example of universe building at all. The approach in the discworld novels is a lot better.