4 ms·

>basic human rights - selling drugs - selling hacking/ddossing services - posting beheading videos, latest one had Ukrainian soldiers head on a spike - send

by rasz 2y ago

>basic human rights - selling drugs - selling hacking/ddossing services - posting beheading videos, latest one had Ukrainian soldiers head on a spike - sending cruise missile targeting coordinates to military units According to outraged russians those all among the things French prosecutors mentioned in arrest warrant.

artemonster 2y ago
unless he personally did all of those, this is a separate issue. by the same logic you dont sue gun manufacturers for all the deaths caused by these guns.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > you dont sue gun manufacturers for all the deaths caused by these guns We literally had to pass a law because people kept doing that [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_...
  - jacobgkau 2y ago
    So we don't do it anymore.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      The exception proves the rule. In general, we hold providers liable for the damage their goods and services do.
jatotebs 2y ago
Drugs are sold on every platform, including Instagram. The other parts are just as likely to end up on Facebook as they are Telegram too, there really is no point in trying to make this sound like the USA-based platforms aren't utterly rife with the things you mentioned too. The only difference here is that Telegram isn't USA-owned and doesn't need to bow down to the USA Govt.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > only difference here is that Telegram isn't USA-owned and doesn't need to bow down to the USA Govt The U.S. government doesn't like encrypted communications. But it's legally bound, by our Constitution and courts, in a way Paris is not. Nobody has been fussing about Telegram in a serious way in America.
  - jatotebs 2y ago
    You don't think USA are remotely involved in this decision to go after Durov? Especially with France being part of the 9-Eyes alliance with USA. Edit: I added on a mention about the close intelligence relationship between France and USA, for those not in the know.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > You don't think USA are remotely involved in this decision to go after Durov? Not really, no. If we wanted to nab him for goodies, we'd use a country without the rule of law. > with France being part of the 9-Eyes alliance with USA Telegram is unencrypted by default. The IC has no reason to mess with it. Also, it takes about a picosecond of studying Gallic-American relations to realise that Paris doesn't take instructions from Washington.
    - JAlexoid 2y ago
      Telegram isn't an interesting target for US govt, as its use in the west is low. US is least likely culprit here.
- itake 2y ago
  > The only difference here is that Telegram isn't USA-owned and doesn't need to bow down to the USA Govt. My understanding, unlike US companies, Telegram hasn't been co-operating with the EU? US companies are not perfect (see the hundreds of millions/billions of fines), but the US companies at least work with authorities.
OutOfHere 2y ago
Wait till you find out and list all the crimes committed using the US dollar.
rldjbpin 2y ago
for those comparing this platform to silk road or dark web with stuff like this: there is no proof that Durov is directly involved in these activities or is promoting it. non-cooperation with information from law enforcement of a foreign government is the same as the discourse about us-based tech not complying to chinese requests or those from US adversaries. that alone does not fly in the court of law, at least for rich and influential people. the only thing to wonder is if there was an existing warrant issued against him in place much before he landed in france, and if so why he decided to travel there.

by rasz 2y ago

artemonster 2y ago

unless he personally did all of those, this is a separate issue. by the same logic you dont sue gun manufacturers for all the deaths caused by these guns.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> you dont sue gun manufacturers for all the deaths caused by these guns We literally had to pass a law because people kept doing that [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_...
- jacobgkau 2y ago
  So we don't do it anymore.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    The exception proves the rule. In general, we hold providers liable for the damage their goods and services do.

jatotebs 2y ago

Drugs are sold on every platform, including Instagram. The other parts are just as likely to end up on Facebook as they are Telegram too, there really is no point in trying to make this sound like the USA-based platforms aren't utterly rife with the things you mentioned too. The only difference here is that Telegram isn't USA-owned and doesn't need to bow down to the USA Govt.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> only difference here is that Telegram isn't USA-owned and doesn't need to bow down to the USA Govt The U.S. government doesn't like encrypted communications. But it's legally bound, by our Constitution and courts, in a way Paris is not. Nobody has been fussing about Telegram in a serious way in America.
- jatotebs 2y ago
  You don't think USA are remotely involved in this decision to go after Durov? Especially with France being part of the 9-Eyes alliance with USA. Edit: I added on a mention about the close intelligence relationship between France and USA, for those not in the know.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > You don't think USA are remotely involved in this decision to go after Durov? Not really, no. If we wanted to nab him for goodies, we'd use a country without the rule of law. > with France being part of the 9-Eyes alliance with USA Telegram is unencrypted by default. The IC has no reason to mess with it. Also, it takes about a picosecond of studying Gallic-American relations to realise that Paris doesn't take instructions from Washington.
  - JAlexoid 2y ago
    Telegram isn't an interesting target for US govt, as its use in the west is low. US is least likely culprit here.
itake 2y ago
> The only difference here is that Telegram isn't USA-owned and doesn't need to bow down to the USA Govt. My understanding, unlike US companies, Telegram hasn't been co-operating with the EU? US companies are not perfect (see the hundreds of millions/billions of fines), but the US companies at least work with authorities.

OutOfHere 2y ago

Wait till you find out and list all the crimes committed using the US dollar.

rldjbpin 2y ago

for those comparing this platform to silk road or dark web with stuff like this: there is no proof that Durov is directly involved in these activities or is promoting it. non-cooperation with information from law enforcement of a foreign government is the same as the discourse about us-based tech not complying to chinese requests or those from US adversaries. that alone does not fly in the court of law, at least for rich and influential people. the only thing to wonder is if there was an existing warrant issued against him in place much before he landed in france, and if so why he decided to travel there.