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The data the French government wants is in cleartext on Telegram's servers, but is there an argument to be made that, at least ethically, communications should

by judge2020 2y ago

The data the French government wants is in cleartext on Telegram's servers, but is there an argument to be made that, at least ethically, communications should be protected regardless of encrypted vs plaintext, and police should just do regular detective work to catch criminals? Edit: PDF for the arrest warrant so that it's in context for the comments: https://www.tribunal-de-paris.justice.fr/sites/default/files/2024-08/2024-08-26%20-%20CP%20TELEGRAM%20.pdf https://www.tribunal-de-paris.justice.fr/sites/default/files...

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> an argument to be made that, at least ethically, communications should be protected regardless of encrypted vs plaintext, and police should just do regular detective work to catch criminals? France has fairly extreme data retention requirements [1]. [1] https://www.conseil-etat.fr/en/news/connection-data-the-council-of-state-conciliates-the-implementation-of-european-union-law-and-the-effectiveness-of-the-fight-against-terrorism-and https://www.conseil-etat.fr/en/news/connection-data-the-coun...
nabla9 2y ago
Sending warrants and subpoenas is regular detective work.
- effingwewt 2y ago
  Not when it's to another country with its own laws. Seeing stuff like in the past few decades has me viewing criminals and police more and more alike. At least the criminals don't hide behind a facade of public service/good.
Ylpertnodi 2y ago
It is (unfortunately) regular police work.....nowadays. Only criminals (and their defenders) complained about fingerprints being used as id, nowadays it's expected. Time moves on. I did set up telegram today...my contribution to the noise, as I'm a very firm believer in communications being very protected. I do highly commend Snowdon for what he has done in the past, but his (though highly understandable) silence regarding Ukraine puts him on my shitlist. Very low down on it, but on it all the same.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  > silence regarding Ukraine Do you even understand that he is forced to stay in Russia, and would prefer not to have an accidental fall from a window?
  - longdustytrail 2y ago
    Is he a Russian puppet or isn’t he? If he can’t speak on ukraine for fear of being killed by Putin then everything he says should be viewed through that same lens
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- vgb2k18 2y ago
  If you personally could lead by example, and flee the US, seek asylum in Russia only to be not "silent regarding Ukraine", your name could be deleted from my moronic shitlist too.
anigbrowl 2y ago
No, I don't think so. If people are openly advertising to provide criminal services (which is super-easy to find on Telegram; eg there are channels where you can pay people to damage property or commit violence), is it realistic to expect police to ignore that just because it's digital?
tdb7893 2y ago
I don't really have good context on the issue but is there a reason you consider getting Telegram logs outside of "regular detective work". Intercepting communications (assuming they have a warrant, at least based on my understanding in the US) would seem to be very standard police work to me.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Intercepting communications (assuming they have a warrant, at least based on my understanding in the US) would seem to be very standard police work to me There is also a big difference between doing what e.g. Signal does, which is respond with everything they have, i.e. nothing, and (a) refusing to provide data you have or (b) blowing the warrant off.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> an argument to be made that, at least ethically, communications should be protected regardless of encrypted vs plaintext, and police should just do regular detective work to catch criminals? France has fairly extreme data retention requirements [1]. [1] https://www.conseil-etat.fr/en/news/connection-data-the-council-of-state-conciliates-the-implementation-of-european-union-law-and-the-effectiveness-of-the-fight-against-terrorism-and https://www.conseil-etat.fr/en/news/connection-data-the-coun...

nabla9 2y ago

Sending warrants and subpoenas is regular detective work.

effingwewt 2y ago
Not when it's to another country with its own laws. Seeing stuff like in the past few decades has me viewing criminals and police more and more alike. At least the criminals don't hide behind a facade of public service/good.

Ylpertnodi 2y ago

It is (unfortunately) regular police work.....nowadays. Only criminals (and their defenders) complained about fingerprints being used as id, nowadays it's expected. Time moves on. I did set up telegram today...my contribution to the noise, as I'm a very firm believer in communications being very protected. I do highly commend Snowdon for what he has done in the past, but his (though highly understandable) silence regarding Ukraine puts him on my shitlist. Very low down on it, but on it all the same.

OutOfHere 2y ago
> silence regarding Ukraine Do you even understand that he is forced to stay in Russia, and would prefer not to have an accidental fall from a window?
- longdustytrail 2y ago
  Is he a Russian puppet or isn’t he? If he can’t speak on ukraine for fear of being killed by Putin then everything he says should be viewed through that same lens
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
vgb2k18 2y ago
If you personally could lead by example, and flee the US, seek asylum in Russia only to be not "silent regarding Ukraine", your name could be deleted from my moronic shitlist too.

anigbrowl 2y ago

No, I don't think so. If people are openly advertising to provide criminal services (which is super-easy to find on Telegram; eg there are channels where you can pay people to damage property or commit violence), is it realistic to expect police to ignore that just because it's digital?

tdb7893 2y ago

I don't really have good context on the issue but is there a reason you consider getting Telegram logs outside of "regular detective work". Intercepting communications (assuming they have a warrant, at least based on my understanding in the US) would seem to be very standard police work to me.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Intercepting communications (assuming they have a warrant, at least based on my understanding in the US) would seem to be very standard police work to me There is also a big difference between doing what e.g. Signal does, which is respond with everything they have, i.e. nothing, and (a) refusing to provide data you have or (b) blowing the warrant off.