2 ms·

What is my Linux OS supposed to phone home to? Linus torvalds build machine?

by rowanG077 2y ago

honestjohn 2y ago
You mean you didn't install the Yahoo! translation extension to your kernel?
aeternum 2y ago
What percentage of Telegram users access it exclusively via Linux?
- rowanG077 2y ago
  This is what you said, among others: > Every operating system now phones home and uploads copious event logs. There is nothing about telegram in there.
  - aeternum 2y ago
    Linux distros are much better but they can still phone home. Here's one example: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuPopularityContest https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuPopularityContest For awhile Canonical had a deal with Amazon that was highly questionable. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.en.html The most dangerous however is the auto-updates. Even if the software is safe today, how do you know what tomorrow's auto-update will bring?
squarefoot 2y ago
Whoever forced it to use binary only blobs, like those employed by every wireless network card, can instruct it to exfiltrate users data to be sent anywhere, be it the manufacturers' or whichever entity they're controlled by. Closed chipsets not using blobs aren't immune either as malicious firmware can be implemented in iron only. Sadly, we can't completely trust any system without total software and hardware openness, at least in all subsystems that deal with sensitive data.
- dvdkon 2y ago
  Nowadays NICs only have access to encrypted packets, so such a backdoor would have to be in the CPU. I'm not saying such a thing doesn't exist, but I think it's pretty clear its use would have to be very targeted for nobody to have noticed so far (unless there's a grand conspiracy between all computers to hide clandestine Ethernet traffic).
- lm28469 2y ago
  I mean if that's your threat vector you cannot trust anything nor anyone ever about anything at all. The dude you just shook hand with might have had a glove and stole your finger prints. The post employee you just gave your check to mail might be a impostor. The guy you're about to meet from craigslist might steal your iPhone and cut your thumb to access your entire digital life. Ah but no, you're an average Joe and nobody gives a flying fuck about any of these. Even if the software is totally open-source: unless you also made the hardware: it doesn't matter, unless you compiled all of it (and at that point probably wrote the compiler yourself as well as the os you're using) and installed yourself: it doesn't matter, unless you actually went though every single line of code and checked for yourself that every thing is safe (which you cannot): it doesn't matter
  - squarefoot 2y ago
    My point has nothing to do with absurd conspiracies, but that technically, I repeat :technically, given enough motivation and resources which probably only governments have, there are ways to defeat encryption by planting backdoors into closed firmware so that data is being read before it even reaches the encryption layer. It's very hard to do, but it's 100% possible. You think the USB driver managing your keyboard doesn't have access to all text you write, including passwords? Well, have it talk using a covert channel with the blob running into your network card and all your text is magically sent elsewhere. Again: hard, still possible.
- rowanG077 2y ago
  Now you are talking about hardware firmwares. That has nothing to do with an operating system because it is below the level on operating system.
paxys 2y ago
That is covered by the word "practical" in their comment. No regular (as in, not technically educated or minded) person can even begin to use Linux on their devices. Heck most are almost exclusively using iOS or Android.
- rowanG077 2y ago
  Really? Linux usage has been climbing quickly the last few years. We have a mainstream gaming machine by one of the largest gaming companies using arch linux. I really don't buy this argument anymore at this point.
xdavidliu 2y ago
ahem, Richard Stallman slash Linus Torvalds' build machine but in seriousness, it doesn't need to be the OS itself of course, just any software that runs on the OS

What is my Linux OS supposed to phone home to? Linus torvalds build machine?

honestjohn 2y ago

You mean you didn't install the Yahoo! translation extension to your kernel?

aeternum 2y ago

What percentage of Telegram users access it exclusively via Linux?

rowanG077 2y ago
This is what you said, among others: > Every operating system now phones home and uploads copious event logs. There is nothing about telegram in there.
- aeternum 2y ago
  Linux distros are much better but they can still phone home. Here's one example: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuPopularityContest https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuPopularityContest For awhile Canonical had a deal with Amazon that was highly questionable. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.en.html The most dangerous however is the auto-updates. Even if the software is safe today, how do you know what tomorrow's auto-update will bring?

squarefoot 2y ago

Whoever forced it to use binary only blobs, like those employed by every wireless network card, can instruct it to exfiltrate users data to be sent anywhere, be it the manufacturers' or whichever entity they're controlled by. Closed chipsets not using blobs aren't immune either as malicious firmware can be implemented in iron only. Sadly, we can't completely trust any system without total software and hardware openness, at least in all subsystems that deal with sensitive data.

dvdkon 2y ago
Nowadays NICs only have access to encrypted packets, so such a backdoor would have to be in the CPU. I'm not saying such a thing doesn't exist, but I think it's pretty clear its use would have to be very targeted for nobody to have noticed so far (unless there's a grand conspiracy between all computers to hide clandestine Ethernet traffic).
lm28469 2y ago
I mean if that's your threat vector you cannot trust anything nor anyone ever about anything at all. The dude you just shook hand with might have had a glove and stole your finger prints. The post employee you just gave your check to mail might be a impostor. The guy you're about to meet from craigslist might steal your iPhone and cut your thumb to access your entire digital life. Ah but no, you're an average Joe and nobody gives a flying fuck about any of these. Even if the software is totally open-source: unless you also made the hardware: it doesn't matter, unless you compiled all of it (and at that point probably wrote the compiler yourself as well as the os you're using) and installed yourself: it doesn't matter, unless you actually went though every single line of code and checked for yourself that every thing is safe (which you cannot): it doesn't matter
- squarefoot 2y ago
  My point has nothing to do with absurd conspiracies, but that technically, I repeat :technically, given enough motivation and resources which probably only governments have, there are ways to defeat encryption by planting backdoors into closed firmware so that data is being read before it even reaches the encryption layer. It's very hard to do, but it's 100% possible. You think the USB driver managing your keyboard doesn't have access to all text you write, including passwords? Well, have it talk using a covert channel with the blob running into your network card and all your text is magically sent elsewhere. Again: hard, still possible.
rowanG077 2y ago
Now you are talking about hardware firmwares. That has nothing to do with an operating system because it is below the level on operating system.

paxys 2y ago

That is covered by the word "practical" in their comment. No regular (as in, not technically educated or minded) person can even begin to use Linux on their devices. Heck most are almost exclusively using iOS or Android.

rowanG077 2y ago
Really? Linux usage has been climbing quickly the last few years. We have a mainstream gaming machine by one of the largest gaming companies using arch linux. I really don't buy this argument anymore at this point.

xdavidliu 2y ago

ahem, Richard Stallman slash Linus Torvalds' build machine but in seriousness, it doesn't need to be the OS itself of course, just any software that runs on the OS