4 ms·

How interesting that Audubon, so often associated with conservation and protection of birds, was such a voracious bird consumer! Wild!

shagie 2y ago
The National Audubon Society (founded 1905) is about c̶o̶n̶v̶e̶r̶s̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ (accursed auto incorrect) conservation of birds. (thank you!) John James Audubon (1785 - 1851) was a very different person. He was a naturalist, painter, and studied ornithology... and his ethics were from that age. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_James_Audubon#Art_and_methods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_James_Audubon#Art_and_met... > Audubon developed his own methods for drawing birds. First, he killed them using fine shot. He then used wires to prop them into a natural position, unlike the common method of many ornithologists, who prepared and stuffed the specimens into a rigid pose. When working on a major specimen like an eagle, he would spend up to four 15-hour days, preparing, studying, and drawing it. I recall a story with an eagle where he was trying to asphyxiate it with smoke (so that he wouldn't damage it) - the means and the time it took to do that would be considered by today's standards to be quite cruel.
- pvg 2y ago
  conversation of birds over a delectable meal of birds, no doubt.
  - lioeters 2y ago
    Naturally the conversation turns to the Persian poem, The Conference of the Birds (or Speech of the Birds), where the birds of the world gather and travel in search of the legendary Simorgh, the sovereign of birds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conference_of_the_Birds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conference_of_the_Birds
gottorf 2y ago
I'm told that hunters drive quite a bit of conservation efforts for other animals as well.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > hunters drive quite a bit of conservation efforts Hunters are generally exquisitely knowlegeable about the local flora and fauna. That sort of knowledge rarely accumulates without an element of respect. Some of the most effective conservation efforts in the world arose from environmentalists and hunters allying against developers and ranchers. (And by extension, some of the biggest conservation losses from the latter driving a wedge between the former.)
- wepple 2y ago
  Whilst hunting might involve the killing & taking of an animal, it 100% relies on there being a healthy population to begin with. Not to mention, hunting is actually very difficult (contrary to a lot of belief). You end up spending a phenomenal amount of time learning about animals, their habitat, and behavior. There ends up being deep admiration. Not all hunters of course, some are dipshits. But such is true for any group of people.
  - bbarn 2y ago
    | Not to mention, hunting is actually very difficult (contrary to a lot of belief). This always bothered me. The attitude that you just walk up to some defenseless deer and shoot it and that's some unskilled cruel thing. In reality it's hours or days in a row in a short amount of time a season is open sitting in miserable weather where hopefully the research you've done or the attempts to attract them might outweigh the fact that they can smell you from a mile away and are skittish at every sound in the world. Oh, and the practice and training you've had to do with whatever method you're using to hunt with. Then there's the expense. Licenses, weapons, gear, time off work, you name it. I quit doing it simply because I don't have the time to invest in it as an adult.
    - floren 2y ago
      > sitting in miserable weather Only in some parts of country... further west you're frequently hiking miles and miles (in miserable weather) instead.
cjensen 2y ago
In Audubon's time, the only way to accurately paint a bird in detail was to shoot it, examine it, then paint it. It's also why so many of his paintings are of birds in unnatural positions. Even today, museums and universities sometimes pay for non-rare birds to be collected by shotgun. Collections are needed for certain types of comparative analysis when trying to sus out whether two birds are different species or just variety within a species.
FergusArgyll 2y ago
Old fashioned conservation (Teddy Roosevelt etc.) was often Human centered, We should see nice animals/places, general ecosystem health etc. Roosevelt believed that the laissez-faire approach of the U.S. Government was too wasteful and inefficient While Muir wanted nature preserved for its own sake, Roosevelt subscribed to Pinchot's formulation, "to make the forest produce the largest amount of whatever crop or service will be most useful, and keep on producing it for generation after generation of men and trees. -Wikipedia conservation movement I get the feeling that todays version is more "ethical" in nature, saving animals for their own sake etc. I'm obviously painting in very broad strokes

shagie 2y ago

The National Audubon Society (founded 1905) is about c̶o̶n̶v̶e̶r̶s̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ (accursed auto incorrect) conservation of birds. (thank you!) John James Audubon (1785 - 1851) was a very different person. He was a naturalist, painter, and studied ornithology... and his ethics were from that age. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_James_Audubon#Art_and_methods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_James_Audubon#Art_and_met... > Audubon developed his own methods for drawing birds. First, he killed them using fine shot. He then used wires to prop them into a natural position, unlike the common method of many ornithologists, who prepared and stuffed the specimens into a rigid pose. When working on a major specimen like an eagle, he would spend up to four 15-hour days, preparing, studying, and drawing it. I recall a story with an eagle where he was trying to asphyxiate it with smoke (so that he wouldn't damage it) - the means and the time it took to do that would be considered by today's standards to be quite cruel.

pvg 2y ago
conversation of birds over a delectable meal of birds, no doubt.
- lioeters 2y ago
  Naturally the conversation turns to the Persian poem, The Conference of the Birds (or Speech of the Birds), where the birds of the world gather and travel in search of the legendary Simorgh, the sovereign of birds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conference_of_the_Birds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conference_of_the_Birds

gottorf 2y ago

I'm told that hunters drive quite a bit of conservation efforts for other animals as well.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> hunters drive quite a bit of conservation efforts Hunters are generally exquisitely knowlegeable about the local flora and fauna. That sort of knowledge rarely accumulates without an element of respect. Some of the most effective conservation efforts in the world arose from environmentalists and hunters allying against developers and ranchers. (And by extension, some of the biggest conservation losses from the latter driving a wedge between the former.)
wepple 2y ago
Whilst hunting might involve the killing & taking of an animal, it 100% relies on there being a healthy population to begin with. Not to mention, hunting is actually very difficult (contrary to a lot of belief). You end up spending a phenomenal amount of time learning about animals, their habitat, and behavior. There ends up being deep admiration. Not all hunters of course, some are dipshits. But such is true for any group of people.
- bbarn 2y ago
  | Not to mention, hunting is actually very difficult (contrary to a lot of belief). This always bothered me. The attitude that you just walk up to some defenseless deer and shoot it and that's some unskilled cruel thing. In reality it's hours or days in a row in a short amount of time a season is open sitting in miserable weather where hopefully the research you've done or the attempts to attract them might outweigh the fact that they can smell you from a mile away and are skittish at every sound in the world. Oh, and the practice and training you've had to do with whatever method you're using to hunt with. Then there's the expense. Licenses, weapons, gear, time off work, you name it. I quit doing it simply because I don't have the time to invest in it as an adult.
  - floren 2y ago
    > sitting in miserable weather Only in some parts of country... further west you're frequently hiking miles and miles (in miserable weather) instead.

cjensen 2y ago

In Audubon's time, the only way to accurately paint a bird in detail was to shoot it, examine it, then paint it. It's also why so many of his paintings are of birds in unnatural positions. Even today, museums and universities sometimes pay for non-rare birds to be collected by shotgun. Collections are needed for certain types of comparative analysis when trying to sus out whether two birds are different species or just variety within a species.

FergusArgyll 2y ago

Old fashioned conservation (Teddy Roosevelt etc.) was often Human centered, We should see nice animals/places, general ecosystem health etc. Roosevelt believed that the laissez-faire approach of the U.S. Government was too wasteful and inefficient While Muir wanted nature preserved for its own sake, Roosevelt subscribed to Pinchot's formulation, "to make the forest produce the largest amount of whatever crop or service will be most useful, and keep on producing it for generation after generation of men and trees. -Wikipedia conservation movement I get the feeling that todays version is more "ethical" in nature, saving animals for their own sake etc. I'm obviously painting in very broad strokes