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> No one wants to force older workers out of jobs. <ahem> IBM </ahem> They mention startups as a way for younger folks to do OK, and they're right, but not ev

> No one wants to force older workers out of jobs. <ahem> IBM </ahem> They mention startups as a way for younger folks to do OK, and they're right, but not everyone is cut out for eating ramen for two years. Personally, I would have been happy to join a startup. I had my retirement set, and didn't need to make a bunch of money. I am also quite willing to work long hours (I do that now, but for free). I also have multiple decades worth of experience, shipping software and hardware, running teams, and managing budgets. But I guess there's no market in startups for us olds. The couple of startup "interviews" that I had, were really just insult sessions, where the interviewer was working through their daddy issues.

jajko 2y ago
> but not everyone is cut out for eating ramen for two years We all know failure rate in startups is somewhere around 95%, so young folks are mostly being already smart to not listen that much to those few loud ones with survivor's bias. And even those who don't fail, owners often screw early employees out of any meaningful compensation as company grows. Its fine to eat for 2 years ramens, but then if its still probable you will have nothing to show afterwards apart from worse health and wasted life for somebody else's success, that's fail right there. Even corporations are better proposition in such case - 2 years of solid effort under good manager can land you a nice senior job with adequate compensation (or just ask for it elsewhere, thats how to elevate one's salary a few times). As for general topic - if folks want to retire, most of them will, either by assessing well their declining physical and mental health, or simply having other passions. Life can bring so much more beauty to those few remaining years compared to anything coming out of sitting in front of screen, but not everybody had the luxury of discovering this.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  In general, the only decently paying job titles in the startup world are "Founder" and "Co-founder". Everyone else is probably better off working for a medium-sized boring tech company, outside of the unicorn startup outliers we've all heard of.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  > Life can bring so much more beauty to those few remaining years compared to anything coming out of sitting in front of screen, but not everybody had the luxury of discovering this. Being forced out of the workforce was one of the worst things to happen to me. Being forced out of the workforce was one of the best things to happen to me. I was quite angry, but, not having someone destroying my work, and blaming me for it, has been great. But I am looking forward to spending the rest of my life, standing (not sitting) in front of a screen. The difference is that I do it on my terms. Maybe one of the more gratifying things that has come from this, is the realization that I was mostly right, and my bosses mostly wrong; even though they were constantly telling me that I was wrong.
hindsightbias 2y ago
Not to worry, many of the youts that started with HN are now seeing the other side of not being a culture fit. But what's to stop a bunch of experienced olds from doing a startup?
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  I think that's happened, a number of times. There was a survey, not too long ago, that (I think) said that most successful startups, were comprised of generally older folks. However, I like working with younger folks. I enjoy the enthusiasm and creativity. I can provide some structure and help to unwind some of the problems we face, but there's a lot to be said for heterogenous teams. It's just that, given their preference, people like working with others, that don't challenge them, so you have teams of olds, yutes, women, men, etc. I worked for a couple of decades, in a company that had very heterogenous teams (people think Japanese companies are a bunch of old men, but I have found that not to be the case). I feel that, in those teams, the "olds" had a bit too much authority (I was a yute), but it was educational. I got used to being in environments where I wasn't the smartest person in the room, and I got challenged a lot. Not comfortable, but we did do some interesting stuff.

jajko 2y ago

> but not everyone is cut out for eating ramen for two years We all know failure rate in startups is somewhere around 95%, so young folks are mostly being already smart to not listen that much to those few loud ones with survivor's bias. And even those who don't fail, owners often screw early employees out of any meaningful compensation as company grows. Its fine to eat for 2 years ramens, but then if its still probable you will have nothing to show afterwards apart from worse health and wasted life for somebody else's success, that's fail right there. Even corporations are better proposition in such case - 2 years of solid effort under good manager can land you a nice senior job with adequate compensation (or just ask for it elsewhere, thats how to elevate one's salary a few times). As for general topic - if folks want to retire, most of them will, either by assessing well their declining physical and mental health, or simply having other passions. Life can bring so much more beauty to those few remaining years compared to anything coming out of sitting in front of screen, but not everybody had the luxury of discovering this.

ryandrake 2y ago
In general, the only decently paying job titles in the startup world are "Founder" and "Co-founder". Everyone else is probably better off working for a medium-sized boring tech company, outside of the unicorn startup outliers we've all heard of.
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
> Life can bring so much more beauty to those few remaining years compared to anything coming out of sitting in front of screen, but not everybody had the luxury of discovering this. Being forced out of the workforce was one of the worst things to happen to me. Being forced out of the workforce was one of the best things to happen to me. I was quite angry, but, not having someone destroying my work, and blaming me for it, has been great. But I am looking forward to spending the rest of my life, standing (not sitting) in front of a screen. The difference is that I do it on my terms. Maybe one of the more gratifying things that has come from this, is the realization that I was mostly right, and my bosses mostly wrong; even though they were constantly telling me that I was wrong.

hindsightbias 2y ago

Not to worry, many of the youts that started with HN are now seeing the other side of not being a culture fit. But what's to stop a bunch of experienced olds from doing a startup?

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
I think that's happened, a number of times. There was a survey, not too long ago, that (I think) said that most successful startups, were comprised of generally older folks. However, I like working with younger folks. I enjoy the enthusiasm and creativity. I can provide some structure and help to unwind some of the problems we face, but there's a lot to be said for heterogenous teams. It's just that, given their preference, people like working with others, that don't challenge them, so you have teams of olds, yutes, women, men, etc. I worked for a couple of decades, in a company that had very heterogenous teams (people think Japanese companies are a bunch of old men, but I have found that not to be the case). I feel that, in those teams, the "olds" had a bit too much authority (I was a yute), but it was educational. I got used to being in environments where I wasn't the smartest person in the room, and I got challenged a lot. Not comfortable, but we did do some interesting stuff.