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> Fixing healthcare costs will require a lot of people losing their job, and that wont be popular. And going to a 'single payer' model would also reduce jobs.

> Fixing healthcare costs will require a lot of people losing their job, and that wont be popular. And going to a 'single payer' model would also reduce jobs. And the whole "they want to get rid of your insurance and raise your taxes!". Well, the taxes would be raised, but almost certainly to a smaller extent than the price of the insurance policy you pay for. A middle of the road health insurance policy for me right now is around $1k/month. Whether I pay for it, or an employer offsets some of it - it's beside the point. That's $12k/year that is effectively a 'health tax', it's just not called a 'tax'. Somehow, weirdly, we use the term 'benefit', without with I may more easily and quickly die or languish in pain. Some benefit ;) But yes... if my taxes go up by $10k year, but I don't have to pay for a health insurance policy... I'm still ahead. If I pay for it all, and the employer is out of the loop, it'll feel 'wrong' to many employed folks, but the employer will have more money - they should either pay people more, or hire more people (who used to work in private insurance companies).

throwway120385 2y ago
It's a "health tax" that's administered entirely by a private entity that you can't get rid of except by quitting your job or by spending thousands of dollars extra per month out of pocket. I think if it's politically untenable to go single-payer then every employer must instead be required to give you a stipend every month to buy your own insurance. Then make it illegal for a company to offer insurance for their own employees. If everyone saw what it really cost and what they were really getting there would be a lot more impetus for changes.
- kaibee 2y ago
  Honestly at this point I'd be happy if employers would include on the paystub, the amount the company is actually paying for health insurance for the employee. So many people go around saying oh they have a job with great health insurance that's only $100/month.
lostlogin 2y ago
> That's $12k/year You dont need to pay that much. You can halve that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_h...
- mgkimsal 2y ago
  Unsure what you're getting at with that list. Do you mean I can move to another country?
eadmund 2y ago
> Somehow, weirdly, we use the term 'benefit', without with I may more easily and quickly die or languish in pain. Some benefit ;) Not dying or languishing in pain sounds like a pretty awesome benefit. And indeed, that’s the problem with health care: when one needs it, one will pay almost anything to the provider. Prices are a communication: they signal customers how to ration goods, and producers how to produce them. The higher the price, the fewer the customers but the more the producers; the lower the prices, the more the customers but the fewer the producers. In a free economy, it is possible to say that the work output of one FAANG engineer is economically worth that of 5 New York City garbagemen or 10 Podunk, Idaho janitors or 35 burger-flippers. How many rolls of toilet paper is one vial of insulin worth? Infinitely more, to someone who doesn’t need insulin. Some fraction, for someone who does. Some really small fraction, for someone who needs it right now. It doesn’t make any sense for all three of those people to pay the same price, for either the toilet paper or the insulin. In a single-payer system, how much does the single payer pay? How much do the producers of health care (e.g., physicians, surgeons, nurses, medical researchers, pharmaceutical factories) get paid? It ends up being based on the whims of the people setting those prices (a wage is just a labour price), not on any fundamental voice of the market — and thus it is either too high, or too low, and there is no feedback mechanism to constrain it. And that means society will produce either too little or too much health care, which means it will produce too much or too little of other things.
- mgkimsal 2y ago
  Oh yeah, re benefit. I should have put it in "quotes" or something more to indicate the sarcasm. Gee.. what a great benefit the company provides me - thank you so much(!). > not on any fundamental voice of the market ... > And that means society will produce either too little or too much health care Are we producing 'too little' or 'too much' in the US right now? How would one tell? > It doesn’t make any sense for all three of those people to pay the same price, It doesn't many ANY sense at all? I produce an item and can make ... say, a 20% profit on it by selling at a standard price with my customer base. I could possibly make more with some form of dynamic pricing, but... to say my current approach doesn't make ANY sense seems a bit much, no?
  - 2y ago

throwway120385 2y ago

It's a "health tax" that's administered entirely by a private entity that you can't get rid of except by quitting your job or by spending thousands of dollars extra per month out of pocket. I think if it's politically untenable to go single-payer then every employer must instead be required to give you a stipend every month to buy your own insurance. Then make it illegal for a company to offer insurance for their own employees. If everyone saw what it really cost and what they were really getting there would be a lot more impetus for changes.

kaibee 2y ago
Honestly at this point I'd be happy if employers would include on the paystub, the amount the company is actually paying for health insurance for the employee. So many people go around saying oh they have a job with great health insurance that's only $100/month.

lostlogin 2y ago

> That's $12k/year You dont need to pay that much. You can halve that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_h...

mgkimsal 2y ago
Unsure what you're getting at with that list. Do you mean I can move to another country?

eadmund 2y ago

> Somehow, weirdly, we use the term 'benefit', without with I may more easily and quickly die or languish in pain. Some benefit ;) Not dying or languishing in pain sounds like a pretty awesome benefit. And indeed, that’s the problem with health care: when one needs it, one will pay almost anything to the provider. Prices are a communication: they signal customers how to ration goods, and producers how to produce them. The higher the price, the fewer the customers but the more the producers; the lower the prices, the more the customers but the fewer the producers. In a free economy, it is possible to say that the work output of one FAANG engineer is economically worth that of 5 New York City garbagemen or 10 Podunk, Idaho janitors or 35 burger-flippers. How many rolls of toilet paper is one vial of insulin worth? Infinitely more, to someone who doesn’t need insulin. Some fraction, for someone who does. Some really small fraction, for someone who needs it right now. It doesn’t make any sense for all three of those people to pay the same price, for either the toilet paper or the insulin. In a single-payer system, how much does the single payer pay? How much do the producers of health care (e.g., physicians, surgeons, nurses, medical researchers, pharmaceutical factories) get paid? It ends up being based on the whims of the people setting those prices (a wage is just a labour price), not on any fundamental voice of the market — and thus it is either too high, or too low, and there is no feedback mechanism to constrain it. And that means society will produce either too little or too much health care, which means it will produce too much or too little of other things.

mgkimsal 2y ago
Oh yeah, re benefit. I should have put it in "quotes" or something more to indicate the sarcasm. Gee.. what a great benefit the company provides me - thank you so much(!). > not on any fundamental voice of the market ... > And that means society will produce either too little or too much health care Are we producing 'too little' or 'too much' in the US right now? How would one tell? > It doesn’t make any sense for all three of those people to pay the same price, It doesn't many ANY sense at all? I produce an item and can make ... say, a 20% profit on it by selling at a standard price with my customer base. I could possibly make more with some form of dynamic pricing, but... to say my current approach doesn't make ANY sense seems a bit much, no?
- 2y ago