4 ms·

I feel like it's only possible to get excited about software anymore if it's open source and not in the control of some vendor. Not because I care a lot about t

by ajkjk 2y ago

I feel like it's only possible to get excited about software anymore if it's open source and not in the control of some vendor. Not because I care a lot about the ideology of free software, it's just because the way corporations take over and ruin/sell out everything has been so demoralizing.

surgical_fire 2y ago
There's been quite some time that have the same feeling. You can always find exceptions of course, but in this case it is typically the sort that proves the rule. I personally blame the "growth at all costs" that is pervasive to tech industry, where "simply" being an established, moderately profitable, healthy company is seen as negative. It brings along all sorts of perverse incentives.
meiraleal 2y ago
What are you talking about? Corporations ruining open source is the norm in 2024, indie devs hiding their source code from corps takeover is the new free software.
- federalfarmer 2y ago
  >indie devs hiding their source code from corps takeover is the new free software. High power level take. The Stallman ethos of Free Software simply hasn't played out the way idealists thought it would. Instead, libraries are standardized by megacorps to farm employees inculcated into their design patterns and get GitHub clout chasers to fix bugs for free. Open source really needs something like the CC-BY-NC-ND* license. Code is open but you can't profit from it. Unmodified redistribution requires credit. You can modify the code for personal use but you can't redistribute it without permission. This model at least eliminates the potential maliciousness of a lot of closed-source software while leaving room for indie devs to profit from their work. *[https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/ https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/]
  - b_shulha 2y ago
    There is a Fair Source model, driven by Sentry: https://fair.io https://fair.io
    - federalfarmer 2y ago
      Didn't know about this, glad to know others are seeing a similar problem! I've definitely tried to monetize self-hosted projects that could benefit from Fair Core in particular. The flexibility of the licensing text is also nice as it'd be very easy to modify the standard "two years to open source" timetable or drop in a different license type like GPL: https://github.com/keygen-sh/fcl.dev/blob/master/FCL-1.0-MIT.md https://github.com/keygen-sh/fcl.dev/blob/master/FCL-1.0-MIT...
  - trollbridge 2y ago
    AGPL3 gets somewhat near this; if someone wants to profit in the cloud from it, they have to share all changes they make (and in theory then anyone else could go run a for profit or free service in the cloud or locally with the same new code).
    - meiraleal 2y ago
      Sharing code back isn't enough. AGPLv3 falls short in ensuring the profits from the tools get shared with the creators and maintainers
      - narrator 2y ago
        That sounds like the early 90s when you had to pay for all dev tools and even pay royalties for how many copies of your product you sold with that library. Most people had to roll their own crappy half-assed homebrew data structures because otherwise you'd have to pay for expensive libraries.
        meiraleal 2y ago
        Interesting reference as more and more people long for the a comeback of the old days in tech.
XCSme 2y ago
Open-source is rarely sustainable, I use many open-source projects, and I support/sponsor them when possible, but many simply don't survive long and the builder loses interested. With Coolify it's different, because many companies are willing to sponsor the project, so it's already sustainable.
jmathai 2y ago
I just don't see myself needing to do much differently than I did 10 years ago...heck 20 years ago. Sure some frameworks make things nicer but we had the ability to drag and drop labels on photos and create photo/video montages with audio in our startup back in 2005. Maybe it could be done with better abstractions today but I just don't think it's worth all the complexity that it seems to come with nowadays. Make Web Pages Reload Again.

by ajkjk 2y ago

surgical_fire 2y ago

There's been quite some time that have the same feeling. You can always find exceptions of course, but in this case it is typically the sort that proves the rule. I personally blame the "growth at all costs" that is pervasive to tech industry, where "simply" being an established, moderately profitable, healthy company is seen as negative. It brings along all sorts of perverse incentives.

meiraleal 2y ago

What are you talking about? Corporations ruining open source is the norm in 2024, indie devs hiding their source code from corps takeover is the new free software.

federalfarmer 2y ago
>indie devs hiding their source code from corps takeover is the new free software. High power level take. The Stallman ethos of Free Software simply hasn't played out the way idealists thought it would. Instead, libraries are standardized by megacorps to farm employees inculcated into their design patterns and get GitHub clout chasers to fix bugs for free. Open source really needs something like the CC-BY-NC-ND* license. Code is open but you can't profit from it. Unmodified redistribution requires credit. You can modify the code for personal use but you can't redistribute it without permission. This model at least eliminates the potential maliciousness of a lot of closed-source software while leaving room for indie devs to profit from their work. *[https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/ https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/]
- b_shulha 2y ago
  There is a Fair Source model, driven by Sentry: https://fair.io https://fair.io
  - federalfarmer 2y ago
    Didn't know about this, glad to know others are seeing a similar problem! I've definitely tried to monetize self-hosted projects that could benefit from Fair Core in particular. The flexibility of the licensing text is also nice as it'd be very easy to modify the standard "two years to open source" timetable or drop in a different license type like GPL: https://github.com/keygen-sh/fcl.dev/blob/master/FCL-1.0-MIT.md https://github.com/keygen-sh/fcl.dev/blob/master/FCL-1.0-MIT...
- trollbridge 2y ago
  AGPL3 gets somewhat near this; if someone wants to profit in the cloud from it, they have to share all changes they make (and in theory then anyone else could go run a for profit or free service in the cloud or locally with the same new code).
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    Sharing code back isn't enough. AGPLv3 falls short in ensuring the profits from the tools get shared with the creators and maintainers
    - narrator 2y ago
      That sounds like the early 90s when you had to pay for all dev tools and even pay royalties for how many copies of your product you sold with that library. Most people had to roll their own crappy half-assed homebrew data structures because otherwise you'd have to pay for expensive libraries.
      - meiraleal 2y ago
        Interesting reference as more and more people long for the a comeback of the old days in tech.

XCSme 2y ago

Open-source is rarely sustainable, I use many open-source projects, and I support/sponsor them when possible, but many simply don't survive long and the builder loses interested. With Coolify it's different, because many companies are willing to sponsor the project, so it's already sustainable.

jmathai 2y ago

I just don't see myself needing to do much differently than I did 10 years ago...heck 20 years ago. Sure some frameworks make things nicer but we had the ability to drag and drop labels on photos and create photo/video montages with audio in our startup back in 2005. Maybe it could be done with better abstractions today but I just don't think it's worth all the complexity that it seems to come with nowadays. Make Web Pages Reload Again.