4 ms·

You do that by building enough houses to make housing unattractive to investment firms

by rcpt 2y ago

codedokode 2y ago
There is never enough houses, or they are located in the middle of nowhere thousand of kilometers from nearest subway station or supermarket.
- alistairSH 2y ago
  You're assuming everybody wants/needs a single family with a yard. SFHs should be expensive and considered a luxury. At least in a desirable urban/suburban location. We could/should/must provide more housing in those desirable areas, but it likely should be a mix of high-rise, mid-rise, small apartment units (which could be owner-occupied or rentals), duplexes and triplexes, and row-homes/townhomes.
bunderbunder 2y ago
Alternatively, we adjust the tax code to reflect the instinct that people should deserve to keep a larger percentage of money when they actually worked to earn it, and that income that's essentially free to people who already have lots of money should maybe be taxed at a higher rate. I realize this is a spicy take, but we've really got to get away from this thing where we advantage passive income for wealthy landowners. It didn't work out well for society in enlightenment-era France, it didn't work out well in Victorian England, it didn't work out well in Tsarist Russia, and I'm not convinced that removing birthright qualifications and primogeniture makes all that much more equitable in the modern USA than it did in any of those periods that we tend to look back on as being indefensibly elitist.
- enriquec 2y ago
  Or stop stealing everyones money through inflation?
  - bunderbunder 2y ago
    All models are wrong. But the model that suggests that inflation is directly controlled a knob that policymakers can turn on a whim is incredibly useful to the people who stand to profit the most from deflationary policies.
    - enriquec 2y ago
      And the opposite has been the excuse of every abusive government in history.
- duped 2y ago
  To be fair, the income isn't "free" and the margins are basically zero for small-time property owners on the rent itself. The bulk of the income comes from appreciation in value of the real estate, and when you sell you owe capital gains taxes (which are exempt on sales of a primary residence). And in most places the property taxes are higher, for my home it's about 15% higher. I only know this because I have been preparing to rent my primary residence to see if it's more economical to sell today or hold and sell later, while renting. The answer is the latter, but in terms of real cash I will be in the red for about 2 years until the (very small) difference in mortage + insurance + taxes + upkeep and the rent will be profitable. And even then, it's maybe $150/month. All told it's a slightly better investment than S&P 500 index funds, but resistant to downturns. But it's not a real source of passive income, you don't get your cash out for years.
  - bunderbunder 2y ago
    It sounds like you're looking at it from the perspective of someone who's wealthy enough to take on a few rental properties of their own. The economics start looking rather different from the perspective of a real estate speculation hedge fund. The same forces that make it such easy money for them are also the ones that make it not such easy money for you. When they drive up prices it curtails any more liquid form of asset growth you might have by pulling all the money over to the on-paper value of the property. That's fine for them because real estate is still pretty darn liquid from the perspective of hedge funds and REITs. But it's not very liquid at all from the perspective of a small-time landlord who needs to actually look their tenant in the eye and tell them they're facing eviction because the owner of their home needs to free up some spending money. This, in turn, helps them by creating barriers to entry that push smaller competitors out of the business and securing their place in the oligopoly they're trying to engender.
    - duped 2y ago
      The actual number of residential properties owned by hedge funds is a pittance compared to the number owned by individuals and small time land lords. So I have a hard time seeing how they're pushing smaller competitors out of the business when the smallest competitors aren't even doing it as a business.
- rcpt 2y ago
  Yes a Land value Tax also would be great

You do that by building enough houses to make housing unattractive to investment firms

by rcpt 2y ago

You do that by building enough houses to make housing unattractive to investment firms

There is never enough houses, or they are located in the middle of nowhere thousand of kilometers from nearest subway station or supermarket.

alistairSH 2y ago
You're assuming everybody wants/needs a single family with a yard. SFHs should be expensive and considered a luxury. At least in a desirable urban/suburban location. We could/should/must provide more housing in those desirable areas, but it likely should be a mix of high-rise, mid-rise, small apartment units (which could be owner-occupied or rentals), duplexes and triplexes, and row-homes/townhomes.

bunderbunder 2y ago

Alternatively, we adjust the tax code to reflect the instinct that people should deserve to keep a larger percentage of money when they actually worked to earn it, and that income that's essentially free to people who already have lots of money should maybe be taxed at a higher rate. I realize this is a spicy take, but we've really got to get away from this thing where we advantage passive income for wealthy landowners. It didn't work out well for society in enlightenment-era France, it didn't work out well in Victorian England, it didn't work out well in Tsarist Russia, and I'm not convinced that removing birthright qualifications and primogeniture makes all that much more equitable in the modern USA than it did in any of those periods that we tend to look back on as being indefensibly elitist.

enriquec 2y ago
Or stop stealing everyones money through inflation?
- bunderbunder 2y ago
  All models are wrong. But the model that suggests that inflation is directly controlled a knob that policymakers can turn on a whim is incredibly useful to the people who stand to profit the most from deflationary policies.
  - enriquec 2y ago
    And the opposite has been the excuse of every abusive government in history.
duped 2y ago
To be fair, the income isn't "free" and the margins are basically zero for small-time property owners on the rent itself. The bulk of the income comes from appreciation in value of the real estate, and when you sell you owe capital gains taxes (which are exempt on sales of a primary residence). And in most places the property taxes are higher, for my home it's about 15% higher. I only know this because I have been preparing to rent my primary residence to see if it's more economical to sell today or hold and sell later, while renting. The answer is the latter, but in terms of real cash I will be in the red for about 2 years until the (very small) difference in mortage + insurance + taxes + upkeep and the rent will be profitable. And even then, it's maybe $150/month. All told it's a slightly better investment than S&P 500 index funds, but resistant to downturns. But it's not a real source of passive income, you don't get your cash out for years.
- bunderbunder 2y ago
  It sounds like you're looking at it from the perspective of someone who's wealthy enough to take on a few rental properties of their own. The economics start looking rather different from the perspective of a real estate speculation hedge fund. The same forces that make it such easy money for them are also the ones that make it not such easy money for you. When they drive up prices it curtails any more liquid form of asset growth you might have by pulling all the money over to the on-paper value of the property. That's fine for them because real estate is still pretty darn liquid from the perspective of hedge funds and REITs. But it's not very liquid at all from the perspective of a small-time landlord who needs to actually look their tenant in the eye and tell them they're facing eviction because the owner of their home needs to free up some spending money. This, in turn, helps them by creating barriers to entry that push smaller competitors out of the business and securing their place in the oligopoly they're trying to engender.
  - duped 2y ago
    The actual number of residential properties owned by hedge funds is a pittance compared to the number owned by individuals and small time land lords. So I have a hard time seeing how they're pushing smaller competitors out of the business when the smallest competitors aren't even doing it as a business.
rcpt 2y ago
Yes a Land value Tax also would be great