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That's not what RealPage did. RealPage (in landlord's terms) "uses proprietary data from other subscribers to suggest rents and term"—not just publicly availabl

That's not what RealPage did. RealPage (in landlord's terms) "uses proprietary data from other subscribers to suggest rents and term"—not just publicly available data. Additionally, there's a market impact level to this. When you control 70% of the market, you're a monopoly, regardless of whether you're controlling market prices because you're a landlord or because you're just telling the landlord what price to use. The law ~says that you cannot control 70% of the market. So, yes, if you sell a hosted version of your program that sets prices for 70% of the market and then use you contracts and incentives to police landlord's compliance with your program (another key feature! if RealPage was just providing the data, they would have been less of an issue, but they were also using financial kickbacks to ensure landlords kept their prices high), you are forming an illegal monopoly or price fixing cartel.

adamsb6 2y ago
In other contexts there’s no problem with using proprietary data to set prices, so long as you don’t run afoul of insider trading regulations. Landlords also don’t have monopoly pricing power, they’re making tradeoffs. They can’t list their unit for a million per month or else it would never sell. They can’t list it for a dollar because they would lose money and be flooded with applicants. They’re trading between the highest price they can charge and the unit sitting vacant. AFAIK this is the value RealPage adds, it predicts what the optimal price would be. If it were instead doing something like predicting the market price is X, but telling landlords to set it at 1.3X and stick to their guns while units sit vacant and that eventually renters would have to give in, then it would be a price fixing scheme. Discovering the market price is not a price fixing scheme. Otherwise the NYSE is a price fixing scheme, far more than RealPage.
- hughesjj 2y ago
  > In other contexts there’s no problem with using proprietary data to set prices, so long as you don’t run afoul of insider trading regulations. I believe the parent comment mentioned proprietary data for accuracy, since you had only mentioned publicly available data. Parent comment then goes on to describe various ways Realpage does violate monopoly power.
SoftTalker 2y ago
They also (as I understand it) have landlords sign an agreement that they will charge RealPage's suggested rent and not undercut it. This is the collusion part. It's not just a market research service, they are manipulating prices.
adamsb6 2y ago
Reading through the details on the lawsuit now: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25060739-us_et_al_v_realpage_inc_-_1_-_complaint_filed?responsive=1&title=1 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25060739-us_et_al_v_... It is alleged that they use proprietary data, and it looks like they definitely do. RealPage doesn't appear to police landlord's price setting decisions. I see how you could get this from the first paragraph here, but the paragraph immediately after dispels it: > 28. In addition to agreeing to share nonpublic, competitively sensitive data with RealPage, each AIRM and YieldStar licensee agrees with RealPage to use the AIRM or YieldStar pricing software as RealPage designed it. Landlords are expected to review daily AIRM or YieldStar floor plan price recommendations and use the programs to set scheduled floor plan rents or even unit-level prices > 29. While landlords may not accept every price recommendation, they use AIRM or YieldStar as their pricing software, regularly review AIRM or YieldStar floor plan recommendations, use AIRM or YieldStar to set a scheduled floor plan rent, and use AIRM or YieldStar to set unit-level prices. I think "expected to review... use the program to set rents" must be a description of how the software is designed, not some reward or penalty scheme for setting recommended prices. There's a whole section starting on page 54 that details how RealPage encourages landlords to converge on price, and there's no enforcement mechanism mentioned. The law also does not prohibit a company from dominating a market. It prohibits using monopoly power to engage in certain practices. And monopoly position isn't an input to the price fixing function: it would be illegal even if between two self-employed plumbers.
- marcinzm 2y ago
  > There's a whole section starting on page 54 that details how RealPage encourages landlords to converge on price, and there's no enforcement mechanism mentioned. I mean, not sure what else I'd call something like this: >If a property manager disagrees with the direction of a recommended price change—e.g., the manager wants to implement a price decrease when the model recommends a price increase—the RealPage pricing advisor escalates the dispute to the manager’s superior.

adamsb6 2y ago

In other contexts there’s no problem with using proprietary data to set prices, so long as you don’t run afoul of insider trading regulations. Landlords also don’t have monopoly pricing power, they’re making tradeoffs. They can’t list their unit for a million per month or else it would never sell. They can’t list it for a dollar because they would lose money and be flooded with applicants. They’re trading between the highest price they can charge and the unit sitting vacant. AFAIK this is the value RealPage adds, it predicts what the optimal price would be. If it were instead doing something like predicting the market price is X, but telling landlords to set it at 1.3X and stick to their guns while units sit vacant and that eventually renters would have to give in, then it would be a price fixing scheme. Discovering the market price is not a price fixing scheme. Otherwise the NYSE is a price fixing scheme, far more than RealPage.

hughesjj 2y ago
> In other contexts there’s no problem with using proprietary data to set prices, so long as you don’t run afoul of insider trading regulations. I believe the parent comment mentioned proprietary data for accuracy, since you had only mentioned publicly available data. Parent comment then goes on to describe various ways Realpage does violate monopoly power.

SoftTalker 2y ago

They also (as I understand it) have landlords sign an agreement that they will charge RealPage's suggested rent and not undercut it. This is the collusion part. It's not just a market research service, they are manipulating prices.

adamsb6 2y ago

Reading through the details on the lawsuit now: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25060739-us_et_al_v_realpage_inc_-_1_-_complaint_filed?responsive=1&title=1 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25060739-us_et_al_v_... It is alleged that they use proprietary data, and it looks like they definitely do. RealPage doesn't appear to police landlord's price setting decisions. I see how you could get this from the first paragraph here, but the paragraph immediately after dispels it: > 28. In addition to agreeing to share nonpublic, competitively sensitive data with RealPage, each AIRM and YieldStar licensee agrees with RealPage to use the AIRM or YieldStar pricing software as RealPage designed it. Landlords are expected to review daily AIRM or YieldStar floor plan price recommendations and use the programs to set scheduled floor plan rents or even unit-level prices > 29. While landlords may not accept every price recommendation, they use AIRM or YieldStar as their pricing software, regularly review AIRM or YieldStar floor plan recommendations, use AIRM or YieldStar to set a scheduled floor plan rent, and use AIRM or YieldStar to set unit-level prices. I think "expected to review... use the program to set rents" must be a description of how the software is designed, not some reward or penalty scheme for setting recommended prices. There's a whole section starting on page 54 that details how RealPage encourages landlords to converge on price, and there's no enforcement mechanism mentioned. The law also does not prohibit a company from dominating a market. It prohibits using monopoly power to engage in certain practices. And monopoly position isn't an input to the price fixing function: it would be illegal even if between two self-employed plumbers.

marcinzm 2y ago
> There's a whole section starting on page 54 that details how RealPage encourages landlords to converge on price, and there's no enforcement mechanism mentioned. I mean, not sure what else I'd call something like this: >If a property manager disagrees with the direction of a recommended price change—e.g., the manager wants to implement a price decrease when the model recommends a price increase—the RealPage pricing advisor escalates the dispute to the manager’s superior.