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Love it. Maybe one day U.S companies will learn that while they can steal and sell their own peoples information as they please, and they'll even have their own
by askonomm 2y ago
Love it. Maybe one day U.S companies will learn that while they can steal and sell their own peoples information as they please, and they'll even have their own people brainwashed into such a state of stockholm syndrome that they will defend the corporations ability to do so, that's not the culture EU has, and it won't fly here. Corporations are not the peoples identity here, privacy and safety however are.
- xiphias2 2y agoOr maybe all companies will learn to leave EU behind in innovation. Even though the rules are great, I'm just not sure if it will be good or bad long term for EU.
- anonzzzies 2y agoToo much money here to leave it behind. This is a slap on the wrist anyway.
- llm_trw 2y agoThats what the Chinese through during the industrial revolution.
- croes 2y agoBut the west came back for cheap labor so a win for China in the long term
- llm_trw 2y agoThe century of humiliation is a funny name to call a period of winning.
- piva00 2y agoLet me know which tech company is willing to leave behind 1/2 to 2/3 of the revenue they make in the USA by quitting the European market. The analogy to China during the industrial revolution is simply non-applicable, to the point of not being even wrong.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y agoChina is by basically all accounts running rings around the US, based on current behaviour, whilst being a much more authoritarian regime. America loves to pretend that no other data points exist so they can attribute whatever good performance they’ve historically seen to whatever supposed cornerstone of American life is advantageous to make whatever point they want to make.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- shinycode 2y agoI don’t think this kind of « threat thinking » is true. « We find ways to steal from you and it’s still good for you because otherwise you will be left behind without us ». It’s kinda feels like bullying to me
- gmerc 2y agoIt's called Colonialism
- concordDance 2y agoThis is an unconventional usage of "theft" in the "you wouldn't steal a car?" way. Could you explain how the Uber drivers are worse off due to their data being in the USA?
- darkwater 2y agoWell, they are UE citizens (at least a chunk of it). Following your reasoning, then the whole legislation is moot, and all European citizens data should be sifoned in the US without anyone complaining, because "hey, I'm in the UE so you cannot touch me", no?
- concordDance 2y agoI'm mostly objecting to the terminology.
- koollman 2y agoNot theft indeed, but copy/use of data without consent. How are they worse: They are now at risk if there is a data leak in the USA. There are higher fines for data leaks in Europe, so they aren't as well protected as before
- eska 2y agoDo you mind sending us all US citizens’ data? Just a copy, that is.
- shinycode 2y ago
- croes 2y agoWithout growing user numbers they lose stock value. And ideas like Uber aren't hard to copy by local companies. There was even a time where copy cats were an easy way to get rich. Copy a US company, wait to get bought by that company. That made the Samwer brothers rich.
- ghusto 2y agoTease. I would love it if companies from the U.S.A. left the EU. Not solely for the economic boost it would give local competitors (who have all but shut down when U.S.A. companies came), but also because they clash with our culture in negative ways.
- askonomm 2y agoI love the mention of "innovation". What innovation? All the areas of innovation that matter to the EU people, the U.S does not have. 0 federal paid holidays, almost non existent maternity leave, encourages unpaid overtime (something that is illegal in most of EU). Innovation in regards to corporations ability to screw over their own people for monetary gain is not something we're interested in, that's the U.S mindset - money and success before anything else, including personal freedom, employee rights, and so forth.
- Etheryte 2y agoIt's almost funny whenever this argument comes up. In most EU countries Uber isn't even the biggest ride hailing provider. In this space and every other, there's plenty of competition that would celebrate if any company left the market. There is no figurative void that would be left behind.
- jojobas 2y agoMaybe there's innovation somewhere, but putting third world migrants behind the wheel of rental cars isn't it. In any case, there are EU companies to pick up the slack (i.e. Bolt).
- vidarh 2y agoAll that will happen in that case is that it leaves less competition for companies that provide the same services in the EU.
- irdc 2y agoWe don't like the kind of innovation which exploits workers in this way. On this side of the great herring-pond, humans have rights.
- hasanhaja 2y ago> Even though the rules are great, I'm just not sure if it will be good or bad long term for EU. We can speculate this all we want, but I think it's fair to say with confidence that leaving companies unregulated (or poorly regulated) is bad for everyone in the long term. A slightly different example is the poor enforcement of antitrust laws being one of the reasons we have the tech oligopoly we have today with Apple, Google, Amazon and Meta.
- doikor 2y agoWhat is the actual innovation of Uber outside of trying to push the competitors out of the market with investor money? (this isn't anything new/innovative either) We had app based ride hailing services before Uber and still have them so it can't be that. Surge pricing also has existed before them.
- gmerc 2y agoIt's not like building these platforms is hard. They can leave.
- debesyla 2y agoBut USA companies leaving EU is better for competition - smaller EU-based companies can try to copy the model and do their own thing. For example, for Uber, lack of it (it took a while to come to some countries) already spawned lots of successful competition.
- altacc 2y agoWhat price is it worth paying for innovation? Innovation just means "new", not necessarily good or beneficial. If the innovation is for companies to be able to do anything and treat anyone however they like in order to make large profits for very few people then we don't want that innovation.
- gherkinnn 2y agoWhy can't this argument die? What innovation? These practices are those of parasites and leeches and ticks.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y agoNo, you see US-headquartered multinationals have a God-given right to freedom, including the freedom to smuggle customer data overseas. God bless America.
- djaouen 2y agoIf you don’t like it, stop using US-made products. :)
- niek_pas 2y ago\s, I hope? Not using US-made products is basically impossible in the modern world.
- endisneigh 2y agoIt’s really not. It’s just inconvenient.
- djaouen 2y agoOpen source is (usually) free. I’m just saying, if they really wanted to, other countries could build their own shit. They just don’t. :)
- hasanhaja 2y agoThe following example isn't a tech product, but it demonstrates the outrageous anticompetitive practices some of these monopolies engage in to suffocate people who are just building their own shit: Chokepoint Capitalism with Cory Doctorow - FACTUALLY Podcast: https://youtu.be/vluAOGJPPoM?si=zuezwnlUHhuoQFNt&t=2668 https://youtu.be/vluAOGJPPoM?si=zuezwnlUHhuoQFNt&t=2668
- morbicer 2y agoThere's Bolt where I am from, they are an Estonian company and have better and cheaper services than Uber.
- kmlx 2y ago> that's not the culture EU has clearly: https://www.flossbachvonstorch-researchinstitute.com/fileadmin/user_upload/RI/Studien/files/englisch/210210-s_p500-vs-stoxx600_english.pdf https://www.flossbachvonstorch-researchinstitute.com/fileadm...
- mettamage 2y agoInstances like this really make me feel that capitalism is devoid of any morality. If there's no law guarding it, a company will abuse its power in order to make more money. It could be a morally good thing, a morally bad thing, it doesn't matter: more money is more money. It feels heartless. I wish there was a better system.
- allendoerfer 2y agoWe have tried systems based on some seemingly absolute moral codex. Some parts of the world are still doing it. Unfortunately it always comes with brutal ways to kill arbitrary groups of people.
- epgui 2y agoYou seem to be missing an ethics class. Morality doesn’t have to be like that at all.
- allendoerfer 2y agoSo you would say these systems are no true scotsmen?
- epgui 2y agoNo. If you go looking, you will find plenty of counter-examples in History. You just made a statement that the top handful of catastrophic examples were representative of the bunch. You have massive selection bias in your sample. “Morally-based decision ends well” is not exactly something that makes headlines or that is seized upon by historians to explain memorable cataclysmic events. You don’t need to be an ethics expert to see a difference between moral principles that lead to suffering, and moral principles that don’t. Waving away all morality in moral nihilism is teenage-level ethical sophistication.
- allendoerfer 2y agoYou are carefully trying to stay vague and are avoiding to name even a single counter-example. You are just claiming that my examples are wrong. This is the definition of a "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Name one non-capitalistic system more moral than the currently existing ones. All rankings trying to quantify morality and order societies by it, are consistently topped by social market economies, a form of capitalism. > Waving away all morality in moral nihilism is teenage-level ethical sophistication. It is also something I have never done. With the edits to your post, its nature became more and more apologetic to dictatorships. I hope this was not what you have intended.
- sneak 2y agoThe surveillance systems in the EU are just as invasive, and frequently moreso, than in the US. This is largely a false meme, an urban legend. There is no meaningful privacy difference between Europe and the US. This is simply a money grab; it won’t move the needle on privacy one bit. You’ll still be surveilled everywhere you go in Europe by the state, the mobile operators, and most of the other apps on your phone. Furthermore, it doesn’t matter if the data stays inside the EU or not. Google collects the same data and the US intelligence agencies can compel them to access the data on EU citizens, stored on EU-located Google servers just the same as if it were in Mountain View.
- lifestyleguru 2y ago[flagged]
- piva00 2y agoGDPR fines won't ever repair any national budget, you're being cynical. > Domestically these countries have entities collecting personal data in the same evil way as US entities Can you provide sources for this allegation?
- lifestyleguru 2y agoIn Germany they're Schufa, Rundfunkbeitrag collection service, copyright predators. In Poland I don't even know the names, but if you ever leave your phone number at any doctor, dentist, or blood test lab, starting from next day you'll receive tons of phone calls offering "free products", invitations to "product presentations". Especially if your age is > 50.
- lossolo 2y ago> In Poland I don't even know the names, but if you ever leave your phone number at any doctor, dentist, or blood test lab, starting from next day you'll receive tons of phone calls offering "free products", invitations to "product presentations" I don't know where you are getting your information from but that's not true.
- lifestyleguru 2y agoPersonal experience of mine and within circle of my acquaintances. Most of the times there is some "GDPR form" you have to sing to receive any service. The blood test results leak from time to time as well. We might be living in different Polands though.
- lossolo 2y agoSo, it’s anecdotal to your circle. Maybe you're just using some shady providers? Because that’s not my experience or the experience of those in my circle. You should be more careful when buying stuff online; this is where these things happen, not in doctors' offices.
- upperneath 2y agoI think you’re reaching and acting like Americans don't understand the implication, we just don’t consider it something that’s bad. We are allies on a global market and therefore treat you no differently. This is why the US is concerned about data islands with China, but has no problem with European countries and companies with US data. Clearly the American capitalist strategy is working since all the products you keep regulating are made in the US. I’d welcome Europe to make some alternatives to what the US is providing before you just unilaterally say we’re immoral and wrong, because currently if all the US companies got fed up enough with the regulation and for some reason pulled out of the market it would cripple the digital life you’re used to in Europe. Revenue has to come from somewhere otherwise a company can’t grow. “Enough revenue to survive” doesn’t incentivize the kind of rapid business development that consistently comes out of the US versus Europe and is just a naive economic worldview. You have to either sell user data, serve ads, or sell the product wholesale or a subscription. Currently the market (including European users) have decided that they’d rather click skip on an ad and have their usage data sold to drive those ads than pay for the product.
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