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Most EVs have specific guides for fire fighting. For example, Tesla’s include the HV disconnects that need to be cut or disabled, and the best way to fight it:

by Shank 2y ago

Most EVs have specific guides for fire fighting. For example, Tesla’s include the HV disconnects that need to be cut or disabled, and the best way to fight it: https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders

torginus 2y ago
Imagine there being hundreds of models of different make and model year of EV, and you are a firefighter facing down a vehicle in the process of turning itself into superheated slag while spewing toxic smoke, and you have to play the game of whack-a-mole of trying to find where to cut so that you don't get 400 volts in your face, while trying to save the people trapped inside.
- k8sToGo 2y ago
  That's why every car has a first responder chart. It is fairly normal and nothing new.
  - falcolas 2y ago
    Where? Genuinely curiuos, I've been over my vehicle and haven't seen one. It's a Ford Mach E, so knowing how to isolate the HV system if I must would be nice. The owner's manual version includes removing the frunk, which is a lot of work.
    - alphabettsy 2y ago
      QR code on the B-pillar or under fuel/charging port?
      - falcolas 2y ago
        Nada. The only QR code is the VIN number.
        moepstar 2y ago
        Usually, you can get/download them from the manufacturer.. In true LMGTFY fashion, i searched it for you :) https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2023/08/11/2021-2022-Mustang-Mach-E-Rescue-Card-MCS-6078.pdf https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America... There you go ;) Print it and put it behind your left sun visor which is usually the place first responders go look for it (LHD vehicle presumed).
        falcolas 2y ago
        See, that kind of defeats the purpose, as stated in the parent post, of "... every car has a first responder chart." And to my point specifically, the disconnect is the same mentioned in the owner's manual. At least they're consistent. EDIT: Also, LMGTFY would be a pretty poor answer to give to first responders should your vehicle be on fire.
        alphabettsy 2y ago
        This site has guides for most makes. https://www.nfpa.org/education-and-research/emergency-response/emergency-response-guides https://www.nfpa.org/education-and-research/emergency-respon...
        falcolas 2y ago
        Nice list, thanks!
    - k8sToGo 2y ago
      Here you go https://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/2021-Mach-E-Emergency-Response-Guide-MCS-5745.pdf https://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/moto...
- audunw 2y ago
  Why imagine? If you’re genuinely curious then ask the firefighters in Norway. In urban areas around the third of the cars on the road are EVs. And there’s probably a wider range of models than anywhere in the world. When asked firefighters say that EVs are an improvement. Even if it’s a bit trickier to deal with a fire when there is one, there are significantly less fires than with ICE, and it takes longer for the fires to reach their peak intensity. There was also a big fire in an airport parking garage recently. Started by a parked ICE car. Not a single battery pack ignited in that fire. Imagine if they were all EVs. No fuel poured on the fire at all (except the plastics and such of course) There’s no reason why the car should become a superheated slag with the right equipment. All you need to do is to apply water to keep it cool, and that will generally keep the battery from getting too hot and igniting the combustible materials. There’s a lot of development in making good equipment for this. There’s was a study showing that a garden-hose like device that sprays water evenly on the battery from the underside can keep the battery cool with fairly little water use. Another study showed that you can use even less water by drilling a hole in the battery pack and injecting water directly into it. I imagine firefighters will eventually get some kind of remote controlled rover that can safely do that operation at a distance. So there’s lots of room for improvement but EVs are already a step in towards safer cars.
- maxerickson 2y ago
  There's logic to disable the HV source automatically in a collision (well, to open the contactors anyway), the cut loop is a redundant safety to ensure that the HV controller gets the message to cut power.
magicalhippo 2y ago
As another example, my Renault Megane E-Tech has specially designed "fireman access"[1] for firefighters so they can quickly get water to the battery in case of fire. It also has a battery quick disconnect switch[2] under the rear seats. [1]: https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/top-stories-2/a-fireman-at-renault-group-engineering/ https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/top-stories-2/a-... [2]: https://media.renault.com/world-premiere-all-new-renault-megane-e-tech-100-electric-36825/ https://media.renault.com/world-premiere-all-new-renault-meg...
- kkfx 2y ago
  Well... It's seems... Childish, to be polite... In case of fire, typically after a powerful crash since EVs are not catching fire for no reasons every now and then, of course fireman's have easy access to open the appropriate small opening INSIDE the vehicle to extinguish it, also given the typical pressure of their water gun and the fact they can't perfectly fit the hole and there seems no easy air passages to avoid squirt water everywhere, and of course, they have easy access to a plastic Qr code in a specific small place of the vehicle to see the relevant instruction remaining nearby with a smartphone, perhaps under bat weather conditions, other vehicles burning and so on... This seems to be what I call manager's driven design or dumb biped design. Oh, I go further: most modern vehicles, not only EVs, are designed by people with very NO DAMN CLUE about roads and safety. Let's observe the very common mania of a big front tunnel to offer large arm rests, can holders, ... and also to impede a passenger pushing quickly the fainted driver foot out of the accelerator, easily access the break pedal while being able to steer and see the road, internal volumes not designed to move from one seat to another if the car is even only parked in tight spots, not even counting an emergency exit from the tailgate. This is the classic design of students at a desktop with no imagination of the real world outside. And I say this as a relatively happy EV owner, who have already noticed an immense slice of missing and badly done things simply because of lack of real world, eagle eye view.
  - magicalhippo 2y ago
    You can see how they use the system in a training exercise here[1]. The access panel is designed to be blown open by the pressure of the water jet[2]. They claim at least that fire fighters were involved[3] in its design, of course I have no idea how significant that involvement was. [1]: https://youtu.be/K7puA9XW0PA?t=139 https://youtu.be/K7puA9XW0PA?t=139 [2]: https://www.renault.co.uk/safety/firefighter-technologies.html https://www.renault.co.uk/safety/firefighter-technologies.ht... [3]: https://media.renault.com/time-fighters-the-story-of-a-unique-collaboration-between-renault-and-the-fire-department/ https://media.renault.com/time-fighters-the-story-of-a-uniqu...

by Shank 2y ago

torginus 2y ago

Imagine there being hundreds of models of different make and model year of EV, and you are a firefighter facing down a vehicle in the process of turning itself into superheated slag while spewing toxic smoke, and you have to play the game of whack-a-mole of trying to find where to cut so that you don't get 400 volts in your face, while trying to save the people trapped inside.

k8sToGo 2y ago
That's why every car has a first responder chart. It is fairly normal and nothing new.
- falcolas 2y ago
  Where? Genuinely curiuos, I've been over my vehicle and haven't seen one. It's a Ford Mach E, so knowing how to isolate the HV system if I must would be nice. The owner's manual version includes removing the frunk, which is a lot of work.
  - alphabettsy 2y ago
    QR code on the B-pillar or under fuel/charging port?
    - falcolas 2y ago
      Nada. The only QR code is the VIN number.
      - moepstar 2y ago
        Usually, you can get/download them from the manufacturer.. In true LMGTFY fashion, i searched it for you :) https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2023/08/11/2021-2022-Mustang-Mach-E-Rescue-Card-MCS-6078.pdf https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America... There you go ;) Print it and put it behind your left sun visor which is usually the place first responders go look for it (LHD vehicle presumed).
        falcolas 2y ago
        See, that kind of defeats the purpose, as stated in the parent post, of "... every car has a first responder chart." And to my point specifically, the disconnect is the same mentioned in the owner's manual. At least they're consistent. EDIT: Also, LMGTFY would be a pretty poor answer to give to first responders should your vehicle be on fire.
      - alphabettsy 2y ago
        This site has guides for most makes. https://www.nfpa.org/education-and-research/emergency-response/emergency-response-guides https://www.nfpa.org/education-and-research/emergency-respon...
        falcolas 2y ago
        Nice list, thanks!
  - k8sToGo 2y ago
    Here you go https://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/2021-Mach-E-Emergency-Response-Guide-MCS-5745.pdf https://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/moto...
audunw 2y ago
Why imagine? If you’re genuinely curious then ask the firefighters in Norway. In urban areas around the third of the cars on the road are EVs. And there’s probably a wider range of models than anywhere in the world. When asked firefighters say that EVs are an improvement. Even if it’s a bit trickier to deal with a fire when there is one, there are significantly less fires than with ICE, and it takes longer for the fires to reach their peak intensity. There was also a big fire in an airport parking garage recently. Started by a parked ICE car. Not a single battery pack ignited in that fire. Imagine if they were all EVs. No fuel poured on the fire at all (except the plastics and such of course) There’s no reason why the car should become a superheated slag with the right equipment. All you need to do is to apply water to keep it cool, and that will generally keep the battery from getting too hot and igniting the combustible materials. There’s a lot of development in making good equipment for this. There’s was a study showing that a garden-hose like device that sprays water evenly on the battery from the underside can keep the battery cool with fairly little water use. Another study showed that you can use even less water by drilling a hole in the battery pack and injecting water directly into it. I imagine firefighters will eventually get some kind of remote controlled rover that can safely do that operation at a distance. So there’s lots of room for improvement but EVs are already a step in towards safer cars.
maxerickson 2y ago
There's logic to disable the HV source automatically in a collision (well, to open the contactors anyway), the cut loop is a redundant safety to ensure that the HV controller gets the message to cut power.

magicalhippo 2y ago

As another example, my Renault Megane E-Tech has specially designed "fireman access"[1] for firefighters so they can quickly get water to the battery in case of fire. It also has a battery quick disconnect switch[2] under the rear seats. [1]: https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/top-stories-2/a-fireman-at-renault-group-engineering/ https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/top-stories-2/a-... [2]: https://media.renault.com/world-premiere-all-new-renault-megane-e-tech-100-electric-36825/ https://media.renault.com/world-premiere-all-new-renault-meg...

kkfx 2y ago
Well... It's seems... Childish, to be polite... In case of fire, typically after a powerful crash since EVs are not catching fire for no reasons every now and then, of course fireman's have easy access to open the appropriate small opening INSIDE the vehicle to extinguish it, also given the typical pressure of their water gun and the fact they can't perfectly fit the hole and there seems no easy air passages to avoid squirt water everywhere, and of course, they have easy access to a plastic Qr code in a specific small place of the vehicle to see the relevant instruction remaining nearby with a smartphone, perhaps under bat weather conditions, other vehicles burning and so on... This seems to be what I call manager's driven design or dumb biped design. Oh, I go further: most modern vehicles, not only EVs, are designed by people with very NO DAMN CLUE about roads and safety. Let's observe the very common mania of a big front tunnel to offer large arm rests, can holders, ... and also to impede a passenger pushing quickly the fainted driver foot out of the accelerator, easily access the break pedal while being able to steer and see the road, internal volumes not designed to move from one seat to another if the car is even only parked in tight spots, not even counting an emergency exit from the tailgate. This is the classic design of students at a desktop with no imagination of the real world outside. And I say this as a relatively happy EV owner, who have already noticed an immense slice of missing and badly done things simply because of lack of real world, eagle eye view.
- magicalhippo 2y ago
  You can see how they use the system in a training exercise here[1]. The access panel is designed to be blown open by the pressure of the water jet[2]. They claim at least that fire fighters were involved[3] in its design, of course I have no idea how significant that involvement was. [1]: https://youtu.be/K7puA9XW0PA?t=139 https://youtu.be/K7puA9XW0PA?t=139 [2]: https://www.renault.co.uk/safety/firefighter-technologies.html https://www.renault.co.uk/safety/firefighter-technologies.ht... [3]: https://media.renault.com/time-fighters-the-story-of-a-unique-collaboration-between-renault-and-the-fire-department/ https://media.renault.com/time-fighters-the-story-of-a-uniqu...