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This is already the case in Germany. It also applies to vacation and sick days. Above all, it's deeply ingrained in German culture, so that no one expects to re

by nicbou 2y ago

This is already the case in Germany. It also applies to vacation and sick days. Above all, it's deeply ingrained in German culture, so that no one expects to reach you outside of your working hours. I help people settle in Germany, and it's one of the main cultural aspects I cover. The other is how normal it is to take sick days.

Aachen 2y ago
Netherlands also The only people that I see working 24/7 are those who run their own business, which made sense to me because everyone else has a contract that stipulates the obligations of both sides. Unless that doc says that you're expected to work outside of work hours (which sounds self-contradictory), that's not part of the agreement. I'm surprised Australia needed a law for that
- nicbou 2y ago
  The culture extends to self-employed people to an extent, but it can be hard to set boundaries for yourself when you are building your own thing. I've been in business for 7 years and fully self-employed for 4 years. Last week was my very first vacation without my laptop.
ryan69howard 2y ago
Result: complete loss of freedom to have flexible working hours and use the company office space
- lljk_kennedy 2y ago
  I don't think that's true. I'm in EU and I've allowed engineers to shift their working hours based on personal circumstances - like start remotely at 7am and finish at 3PM. I also encourage engineers to take the time they need for life stuff - kids school run, doctor, physio, sick aunt, whatever - because ultimately we measure the outcome of their work, and not the sum of hours worked. For the office space - do you mean popping into the office at odd hours, like evenings or weekends? I'd probably be encouraging my engineers to talk to me about why they need to do it and not enjoy their non-working hours. If the work is too much, we solve for that. If they're going all in on something they love, I'll want to make sure they're not on a path to maybe burning-out. Everything in context.
- GJim 2y ago
  Americans really do argue for the right to be treated like dirt don't they! I can assure you old sport, not being contactable outside working hours has nothing whatsoever to do with requesting flexible working hours. And quite why an employee would like to "use the company office space" (be in work!) outside working hours I've no idea!
guywithahat 2y ago
To be fair, I think it’s pretty well ingrained in most western cultures.
- nicbou 2y ago
  Not in the US or Canada, in my experience.
  - guywithahat 2y ago
    I live in the US, I’ve never heard of someone being called after work unless it was part of their job or some once in a decade emergency

by nicbou 2y ago

Aachen 2y ago

Netherlands also The only people that I see working 24/7 are those who run their own business, which made sense to me because everyone else has a contract that stipulates the obligations of both sides. Unless that doc says that you're expected to work outside of work hours (which sounds self-contradictory), that's not part of the agreement. I'm surprised Australia needed a law for that

nicbou 2y ago
The culture extends to self-employed people to an extent, but it can be hard to set boundaries for yourself when you are building your own thing. I've been in business for 7 years and fully self-employed for 4 years. Last week was my very first vacation without my laptop.

ryan69howard 2y ago

Result: complete loss of freedom to have flexible working hours and use the company office space

lljk_kennedy 2y ago
I don't think that's true. I'm in EU and I've allowed engineers to shift their working hours based on personal circumstances - like start remotely at 7am and finish at 3PM. I also encourage engineers to take the time they need for life stuff - kids school run, doctor, physio, sick aunt, whatever - because ultimately we measure the outcome of their work, and not the sum of hours worked. For the office space - do you mean popping into the office at odd hours, like evenings or weekends? I'd probably be encouraging my engineers to talk to me about why they need to do it and not enjoy their non-working hours. If the work is too much, we solve for that. If they're going all in on something they love, I'll want to make sure they're not on a path to maybe burning-out. Everything in context.
GJim 2y ago
Americans really do argue for the right to be treated like dirt don't they! I can assure you old sport, not being contactable outside working hours has nothing whatsoever to do with requesting flexible working hours. And quite why an employee would like to "use the company office space" (be in work!) outside working hours I've no idea!

guywithahat 2y ago

To be fair, I think it’s pretty well ingrained in most western cultures.

nicbou 2y ago
Not in the US or Canada, in my experience.
- guywithahat 2y ago
  I live in the US, I’ve never heard of someone being called after work unless it was part of their job or some once in a decade emergency