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> Like the Russians who are invading Ukraine The insinuation here is that even the civilians are invaders? OP is talking about what's brushed aside as collater

> Like the Russians who are invading Ukraine The insinuation here is that even the civilians are invaders? OP is talking about what's brushed aside as collateral damage, especially easily when things go south overseas.

onepointsixC 2y ago
Russian soldiers are typically citizens of Russia.
- atlasunshrugged 2y ago
  Yes, although unfortunately sometimes they are soldiers of fortune from around the world lured through false promises to serve. https://www.dw.com/en/how-russia-is-recruiting-foreigners-to-fight-in-ukraine/a-70019040 https://www.dw.com/en/how-russia-is-recruiting-foreigners-to...
  - dralley 2y ago
    That's not the problem of the nation they participate in invading.
atlasunshrugged 2y ago
OP said > The people we drop bombs on are citizens of somewhere too. Nowhere in that sentence did I see an insinuation that we were talking about civilians (and I was specifically talking about Russian soldiers). But when we discuss collateral damage, yes that happens sometimes and its awful. However, take how much collateral damage Ukraine causes in Russia when fighting back and how much Russia causes in terms of civilian lives, infrastructure, etc. and it feels pretty clear to me that democratic nations are probably net better at minimizing collateral damage (and generally following international norms and treaties for human rights) than authoritarian regimes.
- ignoramous 2y ago
  > [democratic nations] generally following international norms and treaties for human rights One would think, but: https://www.justsecurity.org/89781/us-lethal-strikes-program-continues-to-violate-intl-human-rights-law/ https://www.justsecurity.org/89781/us-lethal-strikes-program... / https://archive.md/eZUTB https://archive.md/eZUTB > feels pretty clear to me that democratic nations are than authoritarian regimes. Our "feel" is, it is always the other. Never us?
  - onepointsixC 2y ago
    This statement is applicable to the US killing of Osama Bin Laden and is a perfect example of how beyond parody useless the UN is. Terrorists purposely use failed states and states which may have security apparatuses which are sympathetic to them (in the case of Pakistan and Osama) for safe harbor. They are legal combatants and should not be left to their own devices.

onepointsixC 2y ago

Russian soldiers are typically citizens of Russia.

atlasunshrugged 2y ago
Yes, although unfortunately sometimes they are soldiers of fortune from around the world lured through false promises to serve. https://www.dw.com/en/how-russia-is-recruiting-foreigners-to-fight-in-ukraine/a-70019040 https://www.dw.com/en/how-russia-is-recruiting-foreigners-to...
- dralley 2y ago
  That's not the problem of the nation they participate in invading.

atlasunshrugged 2y ago

OP said > The people we drop bombs on are citizens of somewhere too. Nowhere in that sentence did I see an insinuation that we were talking about civilians (and I was specifically talking about Russian soldiers). But when we discuss collateral damage, yes that happens sometimes and its awful. However, take how much collateral damage Ukraine causes in Russia when fighting back and how much Russia causes in terms of civilian lives, infrastructure, etc. and it feels pretty clear to me that democratic nations are probably net better at minimizing collateral damage (and generally following international norms and treaties for human rights) than authoritarian regimes.

ignoramous 2y ago
> [democratic nations] generally following international norms and treaties for human rights One would think, but: https://www.justsecurity.org/89781/us-lethal-strikes-program-continues-to-violate-intl-human-rights-law/ https://www.justsecurity.org/89781/us-lethal-strikes-program... / https://archive.md/eZUTB https://archive.md/eZUTB > feels pretty clear to me that democratic nations are than authoritarian regimes. Our "feel" is, it is always the other. Never us?
- onepointsixC 2y ago
  This statement is applicable to the US killing of Osama Bin Laden and is a perfect example of how beyond parody useless the UN is. Terrorists purposely use failed states and states which may have security apparatuses which are sympathetic to them (in the case of Pakistan and Osama) for safe harbor. They are legal combatants and should not be left to their own devices.