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None of these comments here are reassuring. As if people’s concerns about developing weapon technology are economic concerns lol. - Partner countries like Isra

None of these comments here are reassuring. As if people’s concerns about developing weapon technology are economic concerns lol. - Partner countries like Israel (however you feel about that) will eventually use whatever we make. America will not be sole user. - America’s police is not afraid to use technology on its own citizens. Obviously they don’t have access to missile defense, but there are plenty examples of them getting military hardware. I am not actually 100% never-make-weapons, but I have strong doubts anyone profit-motivated is strongly thinking about the second order effects.

giraffe_lady 2y ago
The american tech industry in general and YC specifically used to be softly, subtly technofascist. The last 18 months it has been shifting more towards overtly so. This is another notch on that ratchet, rather than a totally new thing.
- onepointsixC 2y ago
  Silicon valley’s foundation is building tools of war to defeat fascists. Today we face a new revisionist expansionist ethno state, and their tech companies are lock step with their government in matters of military and espionage. We can choose to either defend our democracy and the world’s most diverse nation or not.
  - giraffe_lady 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - onepointsixC 2y ago
      I’m talking about the US and China, which is the great power competition of our time.
      - giraffe_lady 2y ago
        [flagged]
  - throwpoaster 2y ago
    Hear, hear!
  - sofixa 2y ago
    > Silicon valley’s foundation is building tools of war to defeat fascists Entirely by accident - the US wasn't fighting fascists for some ideals of democracy and freedom, or to liberate conquered peoples, or to save Jews being slaughtered; but because the fascists were invading and declaring war left and right, including against the US. Without Japan attacking, and Germany joining, the US would have probably sat the war out (of course still contributing a lot of armaments and loans to the UK, but that was probably as far as the public and Congress would have allowed things to go). > the world’s most diverse nation The US doesn't even make the top 50 other than in religion, which doesn't count IMO (because US subreligious groups are incredibly close to one another): https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-diverse-countries https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-dive... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ethnic_an...
- labster 2y ago
  You don’t have to be a fascist to support the arms industry existing. Oddly enough, even some libertarians think that having a military is a good thing for governments to do. Military strength is a Red Queen’s race; you need to run just to stand still.
- 15155 2y ago
  "Every political idea I don't like" is automatically "fascism."
redwood 2y ago
Hear your concerns but don't you have to look at what your enemy is doing and use that as the barometer for whether you're sufficiently innovative? Seeing Ukraine barely eke through shows we need low cost options
- einpoklum 2y ago
  I don't know about you, but for me, "the enemy" describes the government of the country I live in, at least much and probably more so than anybody abroad.
moralestapia 2y ago
>anyone profit-motivated is strongly thinking about the second order effects Of course they're aware, they just don't care.
smoyer 2y ago
VCs don't see an ROI on developing peace.
- onepointsixC 2y ago
  You don’t get peace by being defenseless.
abernard1 2y ago
> - Partner countries like Israel (however you feel about that) will eventually use whatever we make. America will not be sole user. Regarding second-order effects, I take great comfort in that. Once upon a time people were able to discriminate between a country which uses violence to achieve goals (say kidnapping, murdering, and raping 1500 youth attending a concert) and national defense. The US funded internet research and promoted its deregulation internally in belief that promotion of American values was something worthwhile. Post-Soviet era US tech was not conflicted in promoting a set of values in line with both its cultural and economic interests. I see this as a small step in that direction, however tepid it may be.
throwpoaster 2y ago
American police will use cruise missiles on citizens?
- sofixa 2y ago
  American police has bombed before (in an amateur manner), so while unlikely, I wouldn't rule it out entirely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing
simonsarris 2y ago
There's also a second order effect to not having the most competent military. Would you rather the US military was less effective than it is today? Or only less effective than it might be?

giraffe_lady 2y ago

The american tech industry in general and YC specifically used to be softly, subtly technofascist. The last 18 months it has been shifting more towards overtly so. This is another notch on that ratchet, rather than a totally new thing.

onepointsixC 2y ago
Silicon valley’s foundation is building tools of war to defeat fascists. Today we face a new revisionist expansionist ethno state, and their tech companies are lock step with their government in matters of military and espionage. We can choose to either defend our democracy and the world’s most diverse nation or not.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - onepointsixC 2y ago
    I’m talking about the US and China, which is the great power competition of our time.
    - giraffe_lady 2y ago
      [flagged]
- throwpoaster 2y ago
  Hear, hear!
- sofixa 2y ago
  > Silicon valley’s foundation is building tools of war to defeat fascists Entirely by accident - the US wasn't fighting fascists for some ideals of democracy and freedom, or to liberate conquered peoples, or to save Jews being slaughtered; but because the fascists were invading and declaring war left and right, including against the US. Without Japan attacking, and Germany joining, the US would have probably sat the war out (of course still contributing a lot of armaments and loans to the UK, but that was probably as far as the public and Congress would have allowed things to go). > the world’s most diverse nation The US doesn't even make the top 50 other than in religion, which doesn't count IMO (because US subreligious groups are incredibly close to one another): https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-diverse-countries https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-dive... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ethnic_an...
labster 2y ago
You don’t have to be a fascist to support the arms industry existing. Oddly enough, even some libertarians think that having a military is a good thing for governments to do. Military strength is a Red Queen’s race; you need to run just to stand still.
15155 2y ago
"Every political idea I don't like" is automatically "fascism."

redwood 2y ago

Hear your concerns but don't you have to look at what your enemy is doing and use that as the barometer for whether you're sufficiently innovative? Seeing Ukraine barely eke through shows we need low cost options

einpoklum 2y ago
I don't know about you, but for me, "the enemy" describes the government of the country I live in, at least much and probably more so than anybody abroad.

moralestapia 2y ago

>anyone profit-motivated is strongly thinking about the second order effects Of course they're aware, they just don't care.

smoyer 2y ago

VCs don't see an ROI on developing peace.

onepointsixC 2y ago
You don’t get peace by being defenseless.

abernard1 2y ago

> - Partner countries like Israel (however you feel about that) will eventually use whatever we make. America will not be sole user. Regarding second-order effects, I take great comfort in that. Once upon a time people were able to discriminate between a country which uses violence to achieve goals (say kidnapping, murdering, and raping 1500 youth attending a concert) and national defense. The US funded internet research and promoted its deregulation internally in belief that promotion of American values was something worthwhile. Post-Soviet era US tech was not conflicted in promoting a set of values in line with both its cultural and economic interests. I see this as a small step in that direction, however tepid it may be.

throwpoaster 2y ago

American police will use cruise missiles on citizens?

sofixa 2y ago
American police has bombed before (in an amateur manner), so while unlikely, I wouldn't rule it out entirely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing

simonsarris 2y ago

There's also a second order effect to not having the most competent military. Would you rather the US military was less effective than it is today? Or only less effective than it might be?