4 ms·

Same is true for interviews. As a woman who isn't super attractive, nor do I really try to be, some interviewers just have a weird expression when they meet me

by cbanek 2y ago

Same is true for interviews. As a woman who isn't super attractive, nor do I really try to be, some interviewers just have a weird expression when they meet me, and I know it's over from there. Just had this happen last week interviewing for a job where I've done PRs on the tools they were using and have been using the tools they were using for years. By the end of the interview he said he enjoyed talking with me but they won't be moving forward. He said I would struggle in the job due to technology but did not ask any technical questions. It is what it is I guess. But I also wouldn't want to work for such shallow people either. Note, the person was found on the HN who's hiring, so it's not just random people but also what I'd consider more thoughtful people who should know better as well.

neilv 2y ago
FWIW, it's not just you; that doesn't make it OK, but at least you're not alone. The tech industry has a lot of unaccountable poor behavior, in interviews, and in general. I don't know how we can solve it. For one reason, the bread&butter of some of our most desirable employers is underhanded exploitation, so we can't expect the environment to be a paragon of decency. For another reason, a lot of the other employers are money-losing investment scams, and a lot of what they do, at various levels, is theatre, not having to optimize collaboration towards successful business. To the extent that companies care about poor behavior, AFAICT, at established companies, it's usually about "compliance" appearances, suppressing legal liabiltiies, and sometimes about morale. That a person can walk into an interview and sense insta-disapproval from the interviewer, before it's even started (or poor behavior during) usually isn't a high priority, since there will be more candidates. It's not even a morale problem, since the person isn't hired. (For example, to hear one former Google hiring expert's talk, that company even knows they have problems like this. Yet the snooty frat rituals, with pretense of relevance and objectivity, and unchecked poor individual behavior and biases you'd expect to accompany that, remain. And that's a relatively nice company.) Thankfully, there's a lot of people who recognize the BS. But even they have constant learning and improvement to do. And it's harder when there's so much bad examples around and thriving. And there's constant new graduates, who are still assuming they're supposed to aspire to and emulate the hotbeds of bad behavior. All I can think of here is "act locally", try to avoid the jerks, and try to do better in our small circles of influence. Other ideas, other than fleeing whatever field is attracting the big money weasels that decade?
- cbanek 2y ago
  Honestly I wish I knew. Having orgs and teams (since it is such a "local" problem in a corporation) that are willing to advertise to me that it's going to be a problem can even be a plus. It's very rare that these people learn better behavior once you get there. If anything it gets worse and turns into the hazing rituals you mention. I'd say the market should decide, eventually, but this article actually proves the opposite, and it's at every level.

by cbanek 2y ago

neilv 2y ago

FWIW, it's not just you; that doesn't make it OK, but at least you're not alone. The tech industry has a lot of unaccountable poor behavior, in interviews, and in general. I don't know how we can solve it. For one reason, the bread&butter of some of our most desirable employers is underhanded exploitation, so we can't expect the environment to be a paragon of decency. For another reason, a lot of the other employers are money-losing investment scams, and a lot of what they do, at various levels, is theatre, not having to optimize collaboration towards successful business. To the extent that companies care about poor behavior, AFAICT, at established companies, it's usually about "compliance" appearances, suppressing legal liabiltiies, and sometimes about morale. That a person can walk into an interview and sense insta-disapproval from the interviewer, before it's even started (or poor behavior during) usually isn't a high priority, since there will be more candidates. It's not even a morale problem, since the person isn't hired. (For example, to hear one former Google hiring expert's talk, that company even knows they have problems like this. Yet the snooty frat rituals, with pretense of relevance and objectivity, and unchecked poor individual behavior and biases you'd expect to accompany that, remain. And that's a relatively nice company.) Thankfully, there's a lot of people who recognize the BS. But even they have constant learning and improvement to do. And it's harder when there's so much bad examples around and thriving. And there's constant new graduates, who are still assuming they're supposed to aspire to and emulate the hotbeds of bad behavior. All I can think of here is "act locally", try to avoid the jerks, and try to do better in our small circles of influence. Other ideas, other than fleeing whatever field is attracting the big money weasels that decade?

cbanek 2y ago
Honestly I wish I knew. Having orgs and teams (since it is such a "local" problem in a corporation) that are willing to advertise to me that it's going to be a problem can even be a plus. It's very rare that these people learn better behavior once you get there. If anything it gets worse and turns into the hazing rituals you mention. I'd say the market should decide, eventually, but this article actually proves the opposite, and it's at every level.