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You could also ask about whether they think it's private. And if they say yes, ask them what it means. Does it mean only sender and intended recipients can read

by maqp 2y ago

You could also ask about whether they think it's private. And if they say yes, ask them what it means. Does it mean only sender and intended recipients can read the message, or is it fine if the service has someone check the content. Would they agree on the notion "it's OK my nudes I send to my SO are up for grabs for anyone who hacks Telegram's servers", or do they think should Telegram plug this gaping hole. Also, people tend to state they have nothing to hide, when they feel they have nothing to fight with. But I can't count the number of times I've seen a stranger next to me on a bus cover their chat the second I sit next to them. Me, a complete random person with no interest in their life is a threat to them.

sam_lowry_ 2y ago
>And if they say yes, ask them what it means I just did it to gather anecdotal evidence and the answer was, the founder is in jail to protect their privacy.
- maqp 2y ago
  So they take theatrics over logical evaluation of the situation. Cool. Tell them Durov could have locked himself out of their data and spared himself the trip to behind bars.
  - tsimionescu 2y ago
    Durov is in jail because he is not doing moderation of public chat channels, as far as has been shared. It has exactly nothing to do with encryption or privacy, in both directions (that is, it doesn't in the slightest prove that Telegram doesn't share private data with various states; and E2EE of private chats would not have done one iota to keep him out of jail).
    - sam_lowry_ 2y ago
      You probably don't use Telegram channels much. There are some drug and prostitution related channels you can search for but they disappear rather quickly or are totally empty. Christo Grozev shared screenshots of a few CSAM channels yesterday, but if you search for them, they do not seem to exist. Telegram clearly does less pre-moderation than Facebook, but they are smaller and have less computing and they do not seem to rely on the masses of Nigerian moderators that work for 5$/day as Facebook does.
  - guappa 2y ago
    Why is he in jail anyway? Certainly he's not a pedo drug dealing terrorist… So there is another reason. As to what that is, we can only speculate. My speculation is that he set a too high price to share the private data with france or USA.
    - maqp 2y ago
      If that's the case, sounds like he should have never collected the data in the first place :) Data is a toxic asset, as Schneier explained in 2016 https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/03/data_is_a_toxic.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/03/data_is_a_tox...
wruza 2y ago
You may try sitting near a completely open-space developer and watch what they are doing, and see the 10x performance drop on average, while there was zero privacy on screen at all times. It helps to realize that people not always behave logically (we have lots of group instincts legacy) and it doesn’t always work as a proper argument.

by maqp 2y ago

sam_lowry_ 2y ago

>And if they say yes, ask them what it means I just did it to gather anecdotal evidence and the answer was, the founder is in jail to protect their privacy.

maqp 2y ago
So they take theatrics over logical evaluation of the situation. Cool. Tell them Durov could have locked himself out of their data and spared himself the trip to behind bars.
- tsimionescu 2y ago
  Durov is in jail because he is not doing moderation of public chat channels, as far as has been shared. It has exactly nothing to do with encryption or privacy, in both directions (that is, it doesn't in the slightest prove that Telegram doesn't share private data with various states; and E2EE of private chats would not have done one iota to keep him out of jail).
  - sam_lowry_ 2y ago
    You probably don't use Telegram channels much. There are some drug and prostitution related channels you can search for but they disappear rather quickly or are totally empty. Christo Grozev shared screenshots of a few CSAM channels yesterday, but if you search for them, they do not seem to exist. Telegram clearly does less pre-moderation than Facebook, but they are smaller and have less computing and they do not seem to rely on the masses of Nigerian moderators that work for 5$/day as Facebook does.
- guappa 2y ago
  Why is he in jail anyway? Certainly he's not a pedo drug dealing terrorist… So there is another reason. As to what that is, we can only speculate. My speculation is that he set a too high price to share the private data with france or USA.
  - maqp 2y ago
    If that's the case, sounds like he should have never collected the data in the first place :) Data is a toxic asset, as Schneier explained in 2016 https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/03/data_is_a_toxic.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/03/data_is_a_tox...

wruza 2y ago

You may try sitting near a completely open-space developer and watch what they are doing, and see the 10x performance drop on average, while there was zero privacy on screen at all times. It helps to realize that people not always behave logically (we have lots of group instincts legacy) and it doesn’t always work as a proper argument.