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> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? Does that mean that AI-generated imagery of some protected group being harmed causes actual harm to tha

> Is it really child abuse if no children were involved? Does that mean that AI-generated imagery of some protected group being harmed causes actual harm to that protected group? Not saying it doesn't, but it may be worth thinking about. Deepfakes of real children is real children being involved. Outside of that, my response is, “how would you create a compelling CSAM image with nothing resembling the target in the training data?”

throwaway76582 2y ago
Despite never having seen any CSAM, and despite my terrible drawing skills, I could probably draw something that would qualify as CSAM.
umvi 2y ago
If a skilled human artist could generate convincing csam despite not having ever viewed it, a computer could too
dgoldstein0 2y ago
Deepfake porn of real people is already starting to be criminalized, children or not: https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/is-deepfake-pornography-illegal.html https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/is-deepfake-... I think that's a good thing, though the law obviously needs more time to catch up.
sandworm101 2y ago
>> how would you create a compelling CSAM image with nothing resembling the target in the training data? (1) You feed it extra training data to suit the desired output. (2) The AI combines bits from existing training data. It has non-pornographic content of children. It has adult pornography. Layer one over the other and voila. Crime. Most AI has zero images of cats doing calculus, but is very capable of generating such content. (3) You manually aid the process. People forget how powerful standalone AI can be when one manually selects good output and feeds it back as a guide for the next iteration. This does not scale to a multi-task environment, but is very useful when accomplishing one specific task.
- imoverclocked 2y ago
  In theory, without the adult pornography to help seed step 2, how hard would you think it to still accomplish this? ie: what if we somehow target not-training LLMs on any pornographic material or any material with children?
gqcwwjtg 2y ago
Deepfakes of real children aren’t mentioned here, so you know. The discussion is more general.
- imoverclocked 2y ago
  From TFA: > Last year, the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children received 4,700 reports of generated AI child porn, with some criminals even using generative AI to make deepfakes of real children to extort them. So, it’s definitely part of the conversation. Also, being a more general conversation means that it encompasses more specifics. Not being able to bring the general conversation back to specifics makes for a fairly useless discussion.

throwaway76582 2y ago

Despite never having seen any CSAM, and despite my terrible drawing skills, I could probably draw something that would qualify as CSAM.

umvi 2y ago

If a skilled human artist could generate convincing csam despite not having ever viewed it, a computer could too

dgoldstein0 2y ago

Deepfake porn of real people is already starting to be criminalized, children or not: https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/is-deepfake-pornography-illegal.html https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/is-deepfake-... I think that's a good thing, though the law obviously needs more time to catch up.

sandworm101 2y ago

>> how would you create a compelling CSAM image with nothing resembling the target in the training data? (1) You feed it extra training data to suit the desired output. (2) The AI combines bits from existing training data. It has non-pornographic content of children. It has adult pornography. Layer one over the other and voila. Crime. Most AI has zero images of cats doing calculus, but is very capable of generating such content. (3) You manually aid the process. People forget how powerful standalone AI can be when one manually selects good output and feeds it back as a guide for the next iteration. This does not scale to a multi-task environment, but is very useful when accomplishing one specific task.

imoverclocked 2y ago
In theory, without the adult pornography to help seed step 2, how hard would you think it to still accomplish this? ie: what if we somehow target not-training LLMs on any pornographic material or any material with children?

gqcwwjtg 2y ago

Deepfakes of real children aren’t mentioned here, so you know. The discussion is more general.

imoverclocked 2y ago
From TFA: > Last year, the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children received 4,700 reports of generated AI child porn, with some criminals even using generative AI to make deepfakes of real children to extort them. So, it’s definitely part of the conversation. Also, being a more general conversation means that it encompasses more specifics. Not being able to bring the general conversation back to specifics makes for a fairly useless discussion.