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As soon as you make both voting and getting id free and paid timeoff or holiday, great. But thats never how voter id laws in america aee proposed, and as such

As soon as you make both voting and getting id free and paid timeoff or holiday, great. But thats never how voter id laws in america aee proposed, and as such, they are the same as antivoter laws.

ImJamal 2y ago
As far as I can tell, every state that has voter id also provides free IDs. They don't have PTO or holidays though.
- blululu 2y ago
  Can't speak to the other 49 states, but California does have a legal requirement for taking time off to vote on Election Day. We also have polling stations that are open in the days before the election so I was able to simply vote on a Saturday morning in the last election which feels like a solid policy.
  - WaitWaitWha 2y ago
    California also has a requirement that ID for any traffic violation, including non-vehicular ones must be shown. Which makes ID ownership and carrying one at all the time a de facto requirement in CA. With the REAL ID Act of 2005, most of the State ID cards (not just driver's licenses) are REAL ID-compliant, meaning they can be used for any state and Federal identification. Some fees: New York: $9.00 - $13.00 (varies based on age and duration of the card). For individuals under 62, the standard fee is $13.00 for an 8-year ID. Those 62 or older with Supplemental Security Income (SSI) can get it for $6.50. Texas: $16.00. The ID card is valid for six years. Reduced fees are available for individuals aged 60 or older and those who are disables. Florida: $25.00. This is the standard fee for a Florida ID card. The card is valid for eight years. The state offers free ID cards to individuals who are homeless or are 100% disabled vets California: $38.00. The fee for a regular ID card in California is $38.00. However, the state offers free ID cards to low-income individuals, seniors, and those who are homeless under specific programs
    - weaksauce 2y ago
      voting is a right. driving is a privilege.
      - anonymous14382 2y ago
        Voting in US elections is for US citizens only.
    - MSFT_Edging 2y ago
      The costs for the ID themselves isn't the only difficulty. For example, someone who is homeless, either newly or chronically. The event that leads to homelessness often coincides with losing most of their possessions. It isn't uncommon for people to lose identifying documents, such as birth certificates, social security cards, etc. If they made it into homelessness without losing those items, they're still a stone's throw away from losing them. Theft, vandalism, or even encampment cleanouts can leave someone with nothing. So now instead of it being the cost for the id, it's the cost for the ID, for the copy of the birth certificate, social security card, etc. To get these things often requires a maze of bureaucracy, and very often a stable address. Now there are services that will provide an address and assist, but one wrong move can throw that out the window. At the end of the day, there's many moving parts and you need to get them all to align at once to be issued an ID. The ID requirement can easily be considered an anti-voter policy.
      - anonymous14382 2y ago
        I don't want to be that guy, but... Is someone who lives on the street really the best person to ask about who should be running the country? Where exactly do you consider a person like that to be a resident, given that they don't have a residence? With no ID, can't they vote in many different areas, or are you going to fingerprint them to ensure that they don't vote again and again? Given that an ID has no monetary value, I think it would be relatively easy for a homeless person to hang on to it. They ought to carry it at all times separate from the rest of their stuff, because it's so essential. Then once they get fingerprinted and register in a central database, they can pick a location to reside and vote there in person. I'm not trying to say that the problems you've mentioned are completely insignificant, but they are relatively rare problems that affect a tiny percentage of the population. Those problems also affect people who live out of vans and travel all around the country. We have much bigger issues than these to worry about.
  - tedunangst 2y ago
    Has anyone ever been arrested or fined for failing to provide time off for voting? Do we think compliance is 100%?
- pessimizer 2y ago
  > As far as I can tell, every state that has voter id also provides free IDs. Are you sure of that? I've never heard of a free state ID, and certainly never gotten one. I've only had ID from five or six states, though.
  - ImJamal 2y ago
    Every state that implemented voter id in the last couple years have also created a free id program. They do not advertise it and since most people get drivers licenses not a state id you won't get it for free.
pessimizer 2y ago
It's long overdue, there's no reason that voting should be on a workday and difficult, and Democrats should propose voter ID laws that make it easier for people to show up at the polls. They don't seem to, though, or even to argue for the concept. They seem to spend most of their time trying to stop people from voting, trying to stop people from running, trying to keep people off the ballot, trying to keep people from talking about their candidates, and harassing minority groups that threaten the firmness of their key constituencies. A lot like Labour in the UK. They spend far more time trying to weaken everyone's right to vote for the candidate of their choice than on anything resembling the opposite, notwithstanding them mentioning John Lewis every five minutes, and erecting statues to him.
- lukev 2y ago
  What are you talking about? Efforts to make it more difficult to vote are almost exclusively right wing. Just look at the list of cases tracked by Democracy Docket: https://www.democracydocket.com/cases/ https://www.democracydocket.com/cases/
firesteelrain 2y ago
“ Thirty-six states have laws requesting or requiring voters to show some form of identification at the polls. The remaining 14 states and Washington, D.C., use other methods to verify the identity of voters. Most frequently, other identifying information provided at the polling place, such as a signature, is checked against information on file.” [1] https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id
PatentlyDC123 2y ago
Most jurisdictions have early voting and/or mail in voting. I understand the time off argument, but in most cases early voting seems like a reasonable solution.

As soon as you make both voting and getting id free and paid timeoff or holiday, great. But thats never how voter id laws in america aee proposed, and as such, they are the same as antivoter laws.

ImJamal 2y ago

As far as I can tell, every state that has voter id also provides free IDs. They don't have PTO or holidays though.

blululu 2y ago
Can't speak to the other 49 states, but California does have a legal requirement for taking time off to vote on Election Day. We also have polling stations that are open in the days before the election so I was able to simply vote on a Saturday morning in the last election which feels like a solid policy.
- WaitWaitWha 2y ago
  California also has a requirement that ID for any traffic violation, including non-vehicular ones must be shown. Which makes ID ownership and carrying one at all the time a de facto requirement in CA. With the REAL ID Act of 2005, most of the State ID cards (not just driver's licenses) are REAL ID-compliant, meaning they can be used for any state and Federal identification. Some fees: New York: $9.00 - $13.00 (varies based on age and duration of the card). For individuals under 62, the standard fee is $13.00 for an 8-year ID. Those 62 or older with Supplemental Security Income (SSI) can get it for $6.50. Texas: $16.00. The ID card is valid for six years. Reduced fees are available for individuals aged 60 or older and those who are disables. Florida: $25.00. This is the standard fee for a Florida ID card. The card is valid for eight years. The state offers free ID cards to individuals who are homeless or are 100% disabled vets California: $38.00. The fee for a regular ID card in California is $38.00. However, the state offers free ID cards to low-income individuals, seniors, and those who are homeless under specific programs
  - weaksauce 2y ago
    voting is a right. driving is a privilege.
    - anonymous14382 2y ago
      Voting in US elections is for US citizens only.
  - MSFT_Edging 2y ago
    The costs for the ID themselves isn't the only difficulty. For example, someone who is homeless, either newly or chronically. The event that leads to homelessness often coincides with losing most of their possessions. It isn't uncommon for people to lose identifying documents, such as birth certificates, social security cards, etc. If they made it into homelessness without losing those items, they're still a stone's throw away from losing them. Theft, vandalism, or even encampment cleanouts can leave someone with nothing. So now instead of it being the cost for the id, it's the cost for the ID, for the copy of the birth certificate, social security card, etc. To get these things often requires a maze of bureaucracy, and very often a stable address. Now there are services that will provide an address and assist, but one wrong move can throw that out the window. At the end of the day, there's many moving parts and you need to get them all to align at once to be issued an ID. The ID requirement can easily be considered an anti-voter policy.
    - anonymous14382 2y ago
      I don't want to be that guy, but... Is someone who lives on the street really the best person to ask about who should be running the country? Where exactly do you consider a person like that to be a resident, given that they don't have a residence? With no ID, can't they vote in many different areas, or are you going to fingerprint them to ensure that they don't vote again and again? Given that an ID has no monetary value, I think it would be relatively easy for a homeless person to hang on to it. They ought to carry it at all times separate from the rest of their stuff, because it's so essential. Then once they get fingerprinted and register in a central database, they can pick a location to reside and vote there in person. I'm not trying to say that the problems you've mentioned are completely insignificant, but they are relatively rare problems that affect a tiny percentage of the population. Those problems also affect people who live out of vans and travel all around the country. We have much bigger issues than these to worry about.
- tedunangst 2y ago
  Has anyone ever been arrested or fined for failing to provide time off for voting? Do we think compliance is 100%?
pessimizer 2y ago
> As far as I can tell, every state that has voter id also provides free IDs. Are you sure of that? I've never heard of a free state ID, and certainly never gotten one. I've only had ID from five or six states, though.
- ImJamal 2y ago
  Every state that implemented voter id in the last couple years have also created a free id program. They do not advertise it and since most people get drivers licenses not a state id you won't get it for free.

pessimizer 2y ago

It's long overdue, there's no reason that voting should be on a workday and difficult, and Democrats should propose voter ID laws that make it easier for people to show up at the polls. They don't seem to, though, or even to argue for the concept. They seem to spend most of their time trying to stop people from voting, trying to stop people from running, trying to keep people off the ballot, trying to keep people from talking about their candidates, and harassing minority groups that threaten the firmness of their key constituencies. A lot like Labour in the UK. They spend far more time trying to weaken everyone's right to vote for the candidate of their choice than on anything resembling the opposite, notwithstanding them mentioning John Lewis every five minutes, and erecting statues to him.

lukev 2y ago
What are you talking about? Efforts to make it more difficult to vote are almost exclusively right wing. Just look at the list of cases tracked by Democracy Docket: https://www.democracydocket.com/cases/ https://www.democracydocket.com/cases/

firesteelrain 2y ago

“ Thirty-six states have laws requesting or requiring voters to show some form of identification at the polls. The remaining 14 states and Washington, D.C., use other methods to verify the identity of voters. Most frequently, other identifying information provided at the polling place, such as a signature, is checked against information on file.” [1] https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id

PatentlyDC123 2y ago

Most jurisdictions have early voting and/or mail in voting. I understand the time off argument, but in most cases early voting seems like a reasonable solution.