5 ms·

> We have no way to know this Well, other than his arrest ;-)

by BeetleB 2y ago

calgarymicro 2y ago
The arrest tells us that he said no to one country, it doesn't say much about all the others.
- smt88 2y ago
  Russian govt officials are protesting his arrest. When an authoritarian govt is calling for the release of someone who runs a "private" messenger, it suggests they have a back door. Otherwise they tend to oppose all private messaging.
  - kombine 2y ago
    No, there is no logical link between the two events. Russian govt can protest that for propaganda reasons: to make a point that Western governments are restricting freedom of speech.
    - sweeter 2y ago
      They're hitting that Uno Reverse card. Tbf, the US does a LOT of the stuff that we openly criticize Russia and China for. Which, I would hope that people have enough insight to recognize that this is a bad thing across the board. The only people who get hurt and face consequences from this kind of a thing are the citizens.
      - averageRoyalty 2y ago
        This is a key perspective people fail to take into account. We've been conditioned by movies, books etc to think everyone fits into these black and white "good and bad" categories. Most western countries do horrific things we do not find acceptable, but when we do find out we hand wave it away because they're the "good guys".
      - azinman2 2y ago
        Can always count on HN for whataboutism. Good thing it’s legal to say so in the countries that dominate its user base.
        celdon25 2y ago
        They don't tend to care until large enough quantities of people start listening despite whatever filters (i.e. de-ranking social media posts) and countermeasures (i.e. cable news assets) are put in place before it gets to that point. Then they very likely have the ability to label it as misinformation and find a legal reason to prosecute under a number of broad categories: https://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/false-information https://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/false-informatio... It came very close to this during Covid, and maybe once or twice since then. You're free to say what you want, and everyone is free to ignore you if what you say doesn't jive with "common sense".
    - kennedywm 2y ago
      No. What would be illogical is to assume that because Russia might be motivated to protest for the sake of propaganda, that it is not also, or instead, motivated by not wanting to lose access to a hypothetical backdoor.
    - miohtama 2y ago
      Durov was robbed from his previous startup at a gunpoint by Putin’s thugs, and then he had to escape, so it is unlikely Durov co-operates with Russia: https://x.com/moo9000/status/1827651335476461813 https://x.com/moo9000/status/1827651335476461813
      - JetSpiegel 2y ago
        https://twitter.com/AmbRusFrance/status/1827628382617481284 https://twitter.com/AmbRusFrance/status/1827628382617481284 Well the embassy is complaining about this arrest, so maybe that's just counter-intelligence.
      - redthnb 2y ago
        That's just the half of the story and Pavel isn't an innocent victim
        petre 2y ago
        So what's the full story then?
  - dawnerd 2y ago
    Russia was also using it for “secret” chats and are probably terrified what could be exposed.
  - Nux 2y ago
    Or they want to make it seem as such..
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- squarefoot 2y ago
  I don't completely buy the fact that he was arrested because he didn't cooperate with authorities. World Police forces have an history of infiltrating criminal groups and gaining their trust; planting backdoors isn't the only way they can investigate people. Also, this way they're yelling loud to these people "hurry! pick another platform!". And then, he is also on Putin's wanted list; his arrest could one day turn him into a valuable bargaining chip.
HumblyTossed 2y ago
What exactly do you think this tells you?
mihaaly 2y ago
I did not see in the list the 'did not allow us adding backdoor to their service' charge. Did I miss something?
- miohtama 2y ago
  This is one of the charges (according to French press): refusing to give French police unfettered access to Telegram user data and moderation. It’s French national law, not EU (though the EU will copy for sure). https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/whats-going-frances-online-hate-speech-law https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/whats-going-frances-onl... Also now they have added “because people watch football matches illegally on Telegram”. So they are going to throw everything at kitchen sink at Durov, probably also national security issues because anti-French political groups use Telegram in Africa. https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1827767824858931319 https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1827767824858931319
  - mihaaly 2y ago
    It is still not backdoor, sorry, you are completely mistaken. They came - tried to come - in the front door openly (the expression of back door means completely different, just look it up and you will see) to catch criminals, doing well known and prominent criminal activity, but the Telegram decided to protect the criminals instead. You can try to smear in whatever imaginative reasons behind when the reason are in the front of your face, like it or not, it does not matter if you like it or not! Also how much people like the Telegram because 'it is soo user friendly and pretty', not in pair with serious crimes committed and aided there, completely not! Also it is still the investigative phase but the suspicion is warranted completely. I seriously do not understand low moral people shielding those helping criminals, do you really not knowing what are you doing, seriously, just because there is a - misleadingly presented - popular service there? Really? Very worrying the moral state of social media user masses.
hcfman 2y ago
Which is principle is meaningless

> We have no way to know this Well, other than his arrest ;-)

calgarymicro 2y ago

The arrest tells us that he said no to one country, it doesn't say much about all the others.

smt88 2y ago
Russian govt officials are protesting his arrest. When an authoritarian govt is calling for the release of someone who runs a "private" messenger, it suggests they have a back door. Otherwise they tend to oppose all private messaging.
- kombine 2y ago
  No, there is no logical link between the two events. Russian govt can protest that for propaganda reasons: to make a point that Western governments are restricting freedom of speech.
  - sweeter 2y ago
    They're hitting that Uno Reverse card. Tbf, the US does a LOT of the stuff that we openly criticize Russia and China for. Which, I would hope that people have enough insight to recognize that this is a bad thing across the board. The only people who get hurt and face consequences from this kind of a thing are the citizens.
    - averageRoyalty 2y ago
      This is a key perspective people fail to take into account. We've been conditioned by movies, books etc to think everyone fits into these black and white "good and bad" categories. Most western countries do horrific things we do not find acceptable, but when we do find out we hand wave it away because they're the "good guys".
    - azinman2 2y ago
      Can always count on HN for whataboutism. Good thing it’s legal to say so in the countries that dominate its user base.
      - celdon25 2y ago
        They don't tend to care until large enough quantities of people start listening despite whatever filters (i.e. de-ranking social media posts) and countermeasures (i.e. cable news assets) are put in place before it gets to that point. Then they very likely have the ability to label it as misinformation and find a legal reason to prosecute under a number of broad categories: https://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/false-information https://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/false-informatio... It came very close to this during Covid, and maybe once or twice since then. You're free to say what you want, and everyone is free to ignore you if what you say doesn't jive with "common sense".
  - kennedywm 2y ago
    No. What would be illogical is to assume that because Russia might be motivated to protest for the sake of propaganda, that it is not also, or instead, motivated by not wanting to lose access to a hypothetical backdoor.
  - miohtama 2y ago
    Durov was robbed from his previous startup at a gunpoint by Putin’s thugs, and then he had to escape, so it is unlikely Durov co-operates with Russia: https://x.com/moo9000/status/1827651335476461813 https://x.com/moo9000/status/1827651335476461813
    - JetSpiegel 2y ago
      https://twitter.com/AmbRusFrance/status/1827628382617481284 https://twitter.com/AmbRusFrance/status/1827628382617481284 Well the embassy is complaining about this arrest, so maybe that's just counter-intelligence.
    - redthnb 2y ago
      That's just the half of the story and Pavel isn't an innocent victim
      - petre 2y ago
        So what's the full story then?
- dawnerd 2y ago
  Russia was also using it for “secret” chats and are probably terrified what could be exposed.
- Nux 2y ago
  Or they want to make it seem as such..
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
squarefoot 2y ago
I don't completely buy the fact that he was arrested because he didn't cooperate with authorities. World Police forces have an history of infiltrating criminal groups and gaining their trust; planting backdoors isn't the only way they can investigate people. Also, this way they're yelling loud to these people "hurry! pick another platform!". And then, he is also on Putin's wanted list; his arrest could one day turn him into a valuable bargaining chip.

HumblyTossed 2y ago

What exactly do you think this tells you?

mihaaly 2y ago

I did not see in the list the 'did not allow us adding backdoor to their service' charge. Did I miss something?

miohtama 2y ago
This is one of the charges (according to French press): refusing to give French police unfettered access to Telegram user data and moderation. It’s French national law, not EU (though the EU will copy for sure). https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/whats-going-frances-online-hate-speech-law https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/whats-going-frances-onl... Also now they have added “because people watch football matches illegally on Telegram”. So they are going to throw everything at kitchen sink at Durov, probably also national security issues because anti-French political groups use Telegram in Africa. https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1827767824858931319 https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1827767824858931319
- mihaaly 2y ago
  It is still not backdoor, sorry, you are completely mistaken. They came - tried to come - in the front door openly (the expression of back door means completely different, just look it up and you will see) to catch criminals, doing well known and prominent criminal activity, but the Telegram decided to protect the criminals instead. You can try to smear in whatever imaginative reasons behind when the reason are in the front of your face, like it or not, it does not matter if you like it or not! Also how much people like the Telegram because 'it is soo user friendly and pretty', not in pair with serious crimes committed and aided there, completely not! Also it is still the investigative phase but the suspicion is warranted completely. I seriously do not understand low moral people shielding those helping criminals, do you really not knowing what are you doing, seriously, just because there is a - misleadingly presented - popular service there? Really? Very worrying the moral state of social media user masses.

hcfman 2y ago

Which is principle is meaningless