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This is not about privacy or sovereign clouds because at least AWS and Azure have those already in Europe. It’s about protectionism and tweaking the law to fav
by outside1234 2y ago
This is not about privacy or sovereign clouds because at least AWS and Azure have those already in Europe.
It’s about protectionism and tweaking the law to favor local companies.
- maeil 2y agoAWS and Azure's "sovereign clouds" still effectively fall under the CLOUD Act and FISA, rendering them as sovereign as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic.
- waihtis 2y agoHow so - Lidl created something for their own demand, and started selling it to externals and found demand. Nothing protectionist in that
- mantas 2y agoThere are some protectionist-like tendencies in europe and that’s fine. Both laws trying to push for as much local parts as possible and buying agencies preference for local providers by tweaking purchasing terms here and there.
- znpy 2y agoThey’re not protectionist, they’re about self-sufficiency and about lowering dependency on third parties, and it’s a good thing in my opinion.
- mantas 2y agoProtectionism and self-sufficiency is the same thing. And so agree it’s a good thing.
- waihtis 2y ago> Protectionism and self-sufficiency is the same thing please revisit the dictionary
- mantas 2y agoThere’s no local industry to protect if you ain’t self-sufficiency. And it’s damn hard to protect self-sufficiency long term without protectionism if possible at all.
- waihtis 2y agoprotectionism is an optional downstream branch of self-sufficiency - being self-sufficient does not automatically imply that it will devolve into protectionism
- mantas 2y agoBut without protectionism self-sufficiency is very likely to fall apart. Be it Chinese manufacturing or EU agriculture.
- mvanbaak 2y agothis is also how AWS started. amazon created a setup they needed and found out that they can sell it to others as well.
- mantas 2y agoYes. And it works when implemented correctly. See China.
- NeuroCoder 2y agoI'm going to apologize for my ignorance upfront here, but I was under the impression that China isn't protecting local companies. It is making the companies it can directly control the only available option. Perhaps you're referring to something other than just controlling technology and information. I'd be interested in knowing more if there's something specific you had in mind
- mantas 2y agoMany Chinese local companies took advantage of west technology they acquired in joint companies and Chinese government kicked off western companies. Preventing a good part of western big tech from entering the market was protectionism too.
- topkai22 2y agoIt’s more of a prisoners dilemma than “it works when implemented correctly.” In general, all parties do better in freer markets and all parties do poorly in restricted markets. However, when one party in a trading system implements restrictions and the others don’t that party can gain outsized benefits versus others. The world spent almost 50 years liberalizing trade systems, mostly with benefits at the national scale. It took 10-15 years for most of leaders to realize that China was successfully subverting the liberal system. “it works when implemented correctly” is the wrong lessons and will lead us to widespread protectionism and make us all poorer. The right lesson is that “bad actors need to be dealt with and excluded from the system.”
- mantas 2y ago„It works when implemented correctly“ might not be the lesson you want others to learn. But looking at China, boy did it work for them. Once you start dealing with bad actors, you'd have to kick out pretty much anybody. Did western europe played fairly with post-cold-war eastern europe? No. I hear South america have issues with US too. In reality this works great for established powers to keep status quo. For the rest... It depends on how many rules you're willing to bend. Or how others go above-and-beyond to help you out for some reason that is not part of the system.
- KingOfCoders 2y agoNot with direct control from the US - with AWS there is no privacy or sovereignity difference between EU-CENTRAL-1 or US-EAST-1 - you might tick a compliancy checkbox though. But sooner or later there will be more pressure and AWS and Azure will create legally independent companies in the EU to manage clouds in the EU.
- whizzter 2y agoSadly iirc the US laws that makes GDPR compliance problematic cover subsidiaries so making them independant enough is probably more or less impossible in practice.
- skrebbel 2y agoIf AWS gets a letter from an American 3-letter agency to plz turn over this and that data and don't tell anyone, they're going to comply, no matter what kind of paper "privacy shield" agreement the politicians negotiated this time around.
- znpy 2y agoYou can name the NSA, it’s not illegal to do it (not in Europe at least —- pun intended)
- skrebbel 2y agoI didn't mean to be vague, I meant to be general. I don't know which other agencies have this kind of unchecked power.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y agoProbably a few we've never heard of.
- vanviegen 2y agoSome might even have a different number of letters in their acronyms, to fly below our radars. :-)
- zo1 2y agoTo be a bit facetious/snarky: And we compare this to the EU's version where they're outright open about it and censor-away? "We're not being bad, this is legal censorship!"
- skrebbel 2y agoI'm not talking about censorship but about access to private data.
- spinningslate 2y agoor: the EU is serious about citizen privacy and addressing the flagrant disregard for it that the major adtech players have shown. If LIDL can compete on price/features/performance _and_ comply with the laws, then good luck to them. Equally, if the big US companies comply, then there's nothing excluding them from the market. They're already present as you note.
- yorwba 2y agoAWS does not yet have a sovereign cloud in Europe, they're planning to launch in 2025: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-plans-to-invest-e7-8b-into-the-aws-european-sovereign-cloud-set-to-launch-by-the-end-of-2025/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-plans-to-invest-e7... (linked in the article)
- cbsmith 2y agoIt's both. Privacy and sovereignty are big issues in Europe, specifically because of the jurisdiction issues. The fact that it provides some protection for European businesses means they'll lean into it all the more. That said, I think the Europeans would be joyous if the rest of the world would eliminate their protectionist boundaries by adopting Europe's privacy laws.
- ahartmetz 2y agoAll countries do that where strategically sensible - or beneficial to "friends" of the government. 300% import tax on Bombardier CSeries anyone? CHIPS act? Silicon Valley getting started with military contracts?