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I used to be an advocate of the standing desk. I bought an adjustable-height Fredrik workstation from Ikea, tried multiple heights to find the most comfortable,

I used to be an advocate of the standing desk. I bought an adjustable-height Fredrik workstation from Ikea, tried multiple heights to find the most comfortable, and stuck with it for six months. It didn't work. Even after months of practice, I found it harder to concentrate while standing and doing it any longer than a few hours would invariably result in back pain. I found myself turning to "sitting tasks" like movies and books frequently just to get a break, and it greatly impaired my productivity. It wasn't easy to admit that I had put such a huge amount of effort into a failed experiment, but that's what it was. I'm writing not to discourage people who might benefit from a standing desk from trying it, but to give people who have nagging doubts about their decision a chance to back out without feeling like an idiot. Eliezer Yudkowsky said once, "'Oops!' is the sound rationalists make when they level up." For what it's worth, I'm 25, male, 6'0", and 130 lbs. I don't exercise regularly, but I live in an urban area in a third-story walk-up, and I don't drive. If you're thinking I gave up because I'm abnormally out of shape, I'm not.

BobPalmer 14y ago
IMO (and for me at least), switching between sitting and standing is the key - I picked up a drafting chair from Staples just for that purpose. So now I do about 75%/25% standing/sitting, and switch positions pretty frequently.
- abossy 14y ago
  Agreed. I do about 50%/50%. It's improved my posture tremendously.
reedlaw 14y ago
I agree that standing all day is not much better than sitting all day. But for someone not ready to jump to a walking desk, alternating sitting and standing would be a step up at least. Also, sitting on an exercise ball for periods of time can be relieving to those who sit in the same chair all day.
sgaither 14y ago
You're obviously not overweight but you're pretty light for that height, so I wonder if someone with a lower center of gravity would suffer fewer back issues? What if you used a laptop that you could move from standing desk to couch from time to time? Like after every 40 minutes?
- goodside 14y ago
  I tried sitting down periodically. It just reinforced how much more comfortable it was to sit than to stand. I find it completely implausible that being thin would making extended standing harder. Flies in the face of everything I've ever read about back problems, which overwhelmingly afflict people with higher BMI. Also, I'm quite young, and have no history of back or muscle pains of any sort outside of what was brought on by the standing desk experiment.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 14y ago
    Why is it implausible? Standing still requires muscle. There is some minimum standard of fitness required to stand for a fairly long time. Being thin or having a normal BMI doesn't mean you're fit. It's just a useful statistical measure to find out the general fitness of a population. Youth won't help you either.
  - olliesaunders 14y ago
    We’re only focusing on the BMI issue because that was revealed by the original comment. Goodside could have spikes placed on the ceiling that dug into his head only when standing. If this was the case we’d be barking up completely the wrong tree. I’m pretty sure he’s not that stupid but my point is, without being present to make an assessment we have absolutely no idea what could be going on. It’s like trying to fix your parent’s computer over the telephone with them operating it.
  - zerostar07 14y ago
    It's not implausible. I used to be skinny like you, everything from getting up in the morning to getting out of the shower (cold) was worse. Standing was harder. For me standing a few hours a day is not about back pain, but for better posture and more energy.
jcampbell1 14y ago
6'0" and 130 lbs is quite underweight. You have very little muscle and I am not surprised by the back pain. You need to gain about 25 pounds of muscle and then consider a standing desk. You need to hit the weights and fridge really hard for about 6-18 months.
- goodside 14y ago
  There are mountains of evidence that BMI correlates positively with the incidence of lower back pain. I have no history of LBP outside of the context of using a standing desk. Further, most of the purported benefit standing desks is to prolong lifespan, and there's even stronger evidence that low-BMI people live longer, so the suggestion that I should gain weight and sacrifice a clinically validated approach to living longer in favor of something as novel as a standing desk is just absurd.
  - nick_urban 14y ago
    BMI is a misleading indicator in this case. It doesn't differentiate by body composition at all (e.g. fat vs muscle). I doubt very much that adding muscle to an underweight person would decrease that person's life expectancy. Probably it would improve it (the health benefits of exercise are well known). Either way, it would improve his quality of life.
    - olliesaunders 14y ago
      I don’t think this is true. Pretty much the only proven thing you can do if you want to live longer is calorie restriction. Supposedly this is because the fewer calories you consume the less exposure your body has to free radicals that are important in aging. The corollary of this is that building muscle, which requires eating a lot, is inferior to being a skinny rake for longevity alone. Then, if you eat barely anything, you would be better with only a small amount of exercise. And, just to rule out any suspicion of bias, know that I have a job where I’m constantly lifting weight, I have my own strength exercise regime outside work, I drink protein shakes, and I eat quite a lot for my frame.
woodchuck64 14y ago
Standing or sitting, I reduced upper and lower back pain with one of these: http://epicself.com/move/roll-it-out-upper-back/ http://epicself.com/move/roll-it-out-upper-back/
marknutter 14y ago
You need to do a combination of sitting and standing. I ran into the same problems you did when first trying out a standing desk for about a year. I went back to sitting for a year, and then finally invested in a motorized desk (geekdesk.com) to get the best of both worlds and I couldn't be happier now. When I'm sick of standing, I sit. When I can't stand sitting, I stand.
vikvik 14y ago
This is very good to know. I wonder if having a bar stool can help. I used to work on a shop floor where you had to be on your feet all day with just a lunch break in between wherein you get to sit. The first few days where killer, but the second week onwards the body just gets used to standing and walking all day. One part of my rotation was through QA where we had tall tables to work on. We were provided tall stools to sit, and we usually worked half standing half sitting.
fghh45sdfhr3 14y ago
While we're throwing personal anecdote around: Male, 30, 6'1'' and 170 lbs. Had lower back pain, switched to a standing desk and the pain disappeared in a few months, and now several years later, I still stand most of the day and can not imagine going back to sitting most or all day.
recycleme 14y ago
A stand-up desk is not for everyone. I've been doing it for close to a month and I'm enjoying it. One of the best benefits that I get from it is not feeling any afternoon drowsiness. I take sitting breaks when I feel like it. It feels good to have a choice between sitting and standing.
SkyMarshal 14y ago
Same. I've actually found that sitting on a Swedish exercise ball is better than a standing desk for me. It forces some active use of muscles and posture, but I don't get tired from it and have to take sit breaks like I do with a standing desk. Fwiw, 5'11" 200lbs, avid cyclist, don't drive.
jonhendry 14y ago
When I tried a standing desk, my feet were the main pain issue, even with shoes made for workers who stand a lot, and a cushioned mat. I also found it harder to concentrate.

BobPalmer 14y ago

IMO (and for me at least), switching between sitting and standing is the key - I picked up a drafting chair from Staples just for that purpose. So now I do about 75%/25% standing/sitting, and switch positions pretty frequently.

abossy 14y ago
Agreed. I do about 50%/50%. It's improved my posture tremendously.

reedlaw 14y ago

I agree that standing all day is not much better than sitting all day. But for someone not ready to jump to a walking desk, alternating sitting and standing would be a step up at least. Also, sitting on an exercise ball for periods of time can be relieving to those who sit in the same chair all day.

sgaither 14y ago

You're obviously not overweight but you're pretty light for that height, so I wonder if someone with a lower center of gravity would suffer fewer back issues? What if you used a laptop that you could move from standing desk to couch from time to time? Like after every 40 minutes?

goodside 14y ago
I tried sitting down periodically. It just reinforced how much more comfortable it was to sit than to stand. I find it completely implausible that being thin would making extended standing harder. Flies in the face of everything I've ever read about back problems, which overwhelmingly afflict people with higher BMI. Also, I'm quite young, and have no history of back or muscle pains of any sort outside of what was brought on by the standing desk experiment.
- 2muchcoffeeman 14y ago
  Why is it implausible? Standing still requires muscle. There is some minimum standard of fitness required to stand for a fairly long time. Being thin or having a normal BMI doesn't mean you're fit. It's just a useful statistical measure to find out the general fitness of a population. Youth won't help you either.
- olliesaunders 14y ago
  We’re only focusing on the BMI issue because that was revealed by the original comment. Goodside could have spikes placed on the ceiling that dug into his head only when standing. If this was the case we’d be barking up completely the wrong tree. I’m pretty sure he’s not that stupid but my point is, without being present to make an assessment we have absolutely no idea what could be going on. It’s like trying to fix your parent’s computer over the telephone with them operating it.
- zerostar07 14y ago
  It's not implausible. I used to be skinny like you, everything from getting up in the morning to getting out of the shower (cold) was worse. Standing was harder. For me standing a few hours a day is not about back pain, but for better posture and more energy.

jcampbell1 14y ago

6'0" and 130 lbs is quite underweight. You have very little muscle and I am not surprised by the back pain. You need to gain about 25 pounds of muscle and then consider a standing desk. You need to hit the weights and fridge really hard for about 6-18 months.

goodside 14y ago
There are mountains of evidence that BMI correlates positively with the incidence of lower back pain. I have no history of LBP outside of the context of using a standing desk. Further, most of the purported benefit standing desks is to prolong lifespan, and there's even stronger evidence that low-BMI people live longer, so the suggestion that I should gain weight and sacrifice a clinically validated approach to living longer in favor of something as novel as a standing desk is just absurd.
- nick_urban 14y ago
  BMI is a misleading indicator in this case. It doesn't differentiate by body composition at all (e.g. fat vs muscle). I doubt very much that adding muscle to an underweight person would decrease that person's life expectancy. Probably it would improve it (the health benefits of exercise are well known). Either way, it would improve his quality of life.
  - olliesaunders 14y ago
    I don’t think this is true. Pretty much the only proven thing you can do if you want to live longer is calorie restriction. Supposedly this is because the fewer calories you consume the less exposure your body has to free radicals that are important in aging. The corollary of this is that building muscle, which requires eating a lot, is inferior to being a skinny rake for longevity alone. Then, if you eat barely anything, you would be better with only a small amount of exercise. And, just to rule out any suspicion of bias, know that I have a job where I’m constantly lifting weight, I have my own strength exercise regime outside work, I drink protein shakes, and I eat quite a lot for my frame.

woodchuck64 14y ago

Standing or sitting, I reduced upper and lower back pain with one of these: http://epicself.com/move/roll-it-out-upper-back/ http://epicself.com/move/roll-it-out-upper-back/

marknutter 14y ago

You need to do a combination of sitting and standing. I ran into the same problems you did when first trying out a standing desk for about a year. I went back to sitting for a year, and then finally invested in a motorized desk (geekdesk.com) to get the best of both worlds and I couldn't be happier now. When I'm sick of standing, I sit. When I can't stand sitting, I stand.

vikvik 14y ago

This is very good to know. I wonder if having a bar stool can help. I used to work on a shop floor where you had to be on your feet all day with just a lunch break in between wherein you get to sit. The first few days where killer, but the second week onwards the body just gets used to standing and walking all day. One part of my rotation was through QA where we had tall tables to work on. We were provided tall stools to sit, and we usually worked half standing half sitting.

fghh45sdfhr3 14y ago

While we're throwing personal anecdote around: Male, 30, 6'1'' and 170 lbs. Had lower back pain, switched to a standing desk and the pain disappeared in a few months, and now several years later, I still stand most of the day and can not imagine going back to sitting most or all day.

recycleme 14y ago

A stand-up desk is not for everyone. I've been doing it for close to a month and I'm enjoying it. One of the best benefits that I get from it is not feeling any afternoon drowsiness. I take sitting breaks when I feel like it. It feels good to have a choice between sitting and standing.

SkyMarshal 14y ago

Same. I've actually found that sitting on a Swedish exercise ball is better than a standing desk for me. It forces some active use of muscles and posture, but I don't get tired from it and have to take sit breaks like I do with a standing desk. Fwiw, 5'11" 200lbs, avid cyclist, don't drive.

jonhendry 14y ago

When I tried a standing desk, my feet were the main pain issue, even with shoes made for workers who stand a lot, and a cushioned mat. I also found it harder to concentrate.