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This is such an ignorant comment I am really disappointed at reading this here. Besides the protocol used by Telegram being publicly available so you can easil

by brabel 2y ago

This is such an ignorant comment I am really disappointed at reading this here. Besides the protocol used by Telegram being publicly available so you can easily confirm in 5 minutes that what you're saying is completely wrong, but you're also saying that law enforcement can totally see all those plain text messages hosted by Telegram, yet they choose to be really upset about it anyway despite it being, according to you, the best possible honeypot ever created with all criminal activity readily available for their peruse. Why, I ask you, would law enforcement want to stop such an app??? They would be completely silent about it and enjoy catching all criminals in it who are "ignorantly" thinking their messages are safe, wouldn't they?? Given the amount of baseless comments like yours on this topic, I can only imagine there's a concerted effort here to misinform everyone to make Telegram look bad so actual criminals move away from it to some more law enforcement-friendly platform. I have conflicting feelings about that, as perhaps the intention is noble, but I can never agree with misleading people by spreading misinformation and plain lies.

mlyle 2y ago
Yes, the data is encrypted in transit. But Telegram can decrypt the data. We can see that's true, because when I add a new device I can get into all my group chats. Only if I explicitly "Start secret chat" does something else happen. Telegram is sitting on a lot of group chats where a lot of horrible things are happening that governments want to see... and gets upset when Telegram doesn't use this access to share that information in response to lawful orders. > I can only imagine there's a concerted effort here to misinform everyone Assume good faith-- it's in the guidelines. I have been here just as long as you. I am not part of some shadowy conspiracy to make people think that Telegram security is bad. I feel like people just don't understand the term of art "effectively plaintext". Alternatively, if you thought I was talking about secret chats in general-- note that we are in a subthread talking explicitly about channels and non-secret chats: "For those unaware, all channel on telegram are NOT ENCRYPTED. They are stored in plaintext on telegram servers. All chats that are not 'secret chat' mode (single device to single device) are NOT ENCRYPTED (stored in plaintext on server)."
lxgr 2y ago
Law enforcement totally could see all those plaintext messages, if Telegram would honor their requests. But they don't, hence their CEO is being detained. That's a position he knowingly and willingly maneuvered himself into. Compare that with e.g. the way Signal answers subpoenas: https://signal.org/bigbrother/ https://signal.org/bigbrother/ > Besides the protocol used by Telegram being publicly available so you can easily confirm in 5 minutes that what you're saying is completely wrong There's absolutely no need to analyzse the protocol, since you can just perform a high-level mud puddle test [1], and Telegram fails it. I've tried this myself. [1] https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2012/04/05/icloud-who-holds-key/ https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2012/04/05/icloud-w...

by brabel 2y ago

mlyle 2y ago

Yes, the data is encrypted in transit. But Telegram can decrypt the data. We can see that's true, because when I add a new device I can get into all my group chats. Only if I explicitly "Start secret chat" does something else happen. Telegram is sitting on a lot of group chats where a lot of horrible things are happening that governments want to see... and gets upset when Telegram doesn't use this access to share that information in response to lawful orders. > I can only imagine there's a concerted effort here to misinform everyone Assume good faith-- it's in the guidelines. I have been here just as long as you. I am not part of some shadowy conspiracy to make people think that Telegram security is bad. I feel like people just don't understand the term of art "effectively plaintext". Alternatively, if you thought I was talking about secret chats in general-- note that we are in a subthread talking explicitly about channels and non-secret chats: "For those unaware, all channel on telegram are NOT ENCRYPTED. They are stored in plaintext on telegram servers. All chats that are not 'secret chat' mode (single device to single device) are NOT ENCRYPTED (stored in plaintext on server)."

lxgr 2y ago

Law enforcement totally could see all those plaintext messages, if Telegram would honor their requests. But they don't, hence their CEO is being detained. That's a position he knowingly and willingly maneuvered himself into. Compare that with e.g. the way Signal answers subpoenas: https://signal.org/bigbrother/ https://signal.org/bigbrother/ > Besides the protocol used by Telegram being publicly available so you can easily confirm in 5 minutes that what you're saying is completely wrong There's absolutely no need to analyzse the protocol, since you can just perform a high-level mud puddle test [1], and Telegram fails it. I've tried this myself. [1] https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2012/04/05/icloud-who-holds-key/ https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2012/04/05/icloud-w...