6 ms·

Could this be combined with masks for greater efficacy?

by elevatedastalt 2y ago

bluGill 2y ago
Most likely but nobody will allow you to suggest that.
- roywiggins 2y ago
  Kids of daycare age probably can't wear masks effectively enough to make a difference, and if they can, it's not obvious that it's worth the effort. Adults could probably reduce how many colds they get by wearing masks everywhere, but most people don't think it's worth the effort.
  - eleveriven 2y ago
    Young children often struggle with keeping masks on properly and consistently, leading to frequent touching and adjusting...
dumbo-octopus 2y ago
Masks have directly contributed to a speech development epidemic amongst youth who were deprived of their ability to see and mimic mouth movements during their prime developmental stages. This has hit underprivileged kids who do not have english spoken at home especially hard. Masks aren’t free.
- maeil 2y ago
  Is there research that shows this? Should be incredibly easy to prove given a large percentage of the world consistently masked and another large percentage of the world consistently did not mask. For reference, I live in a country that had one of the highest masking rates in the world (probably top 10), and this does not seem to be an issue here whatsoever. Not a single time I've heard it mentioned, and given just how huge the focus on child development is here, there's no way it wouldn't be a massive topic.
  - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
    I’ve spoken at length with individuals directly responsible for rehabilitation of such children. But of course if the facts go against the government narrative, the “studies” will not report them. Talk to people, not studies. Do you have many cases of children being in homes where they have limited access to people speaking the national language? Do you talk to individuals who are directly responsible for teaching those folks the language?
    - maeil 2y ago
      I think it was clear from my comment that I haven't heard a single person (not just study) here talk about it. While it's reasonable such an adverse effect would be stronger in cases where at home a different language is spoken than the national language, it's very unlikely that it would only have a noticeable effect for exactly those families, with zero noticeable effect otherwise. And here, where masking rates were extremely high and amount of attention put on/money spent on child development is higher than almost anywhere else in the world, no one has ever brought it up. This doesn't even touch upon the fact that unprivileged families are much harder hit by epidemics (let alone Covid) in general, due to a host of other factors. > But of course if the facts go against the government narrative, the “studies” will not report them. The studies showing that masks were incredibly effective at preventing disease spread went against the US "government narrative" at the time, since I imagine you're talking about the US.
      - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        [flagged]
    - NorthTheRock 2y ago
      > Talk to people, not studies. So literally calling for anecdotes over data?
      - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        Anecdotes are data.
- terminatornet 2y ago
  not true https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9637007/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9637007/
  - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
    I’ve talked to the boots on the ground. Government scientists publishing the official narrative are useless.
    - immibis 2y ago
      Why can't you provide any information, then?
      - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        I just did. The specifics are of course confidential personal information from minors, you want me to publish them here?
        terminatornet 2y ago
        source: trust me
        dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        Even if you do elect to trust the government mandated studies more than the special education teachers directly involved in the situation, the very study the parent cited attempting to discredit me also reaches the same conclusion as me: masks cause developmental damage and their use must be carefully considered, especially as it pertains to forcing young children who can’t say “no” to comply.
        jbm 2y ago
        I'm sympathetic to your views about government policies manipulating which items get studied (see: previous conservative Canadian government muzzling scientists who made comments about oil) I also agree that personal anecdotes from trusted parties are more valuable to my decision making than "data" — but those are personal anecdotes, not anecdotes from anonymous Internet personas. We aren't your friends and we don't know you. Why should we trust you if you are vaguebooking about something that is a common conspiracy trope?
PaulKeeble 2y ago
N95/FFP2 Masks are even higher effectiveness. Even just one wearer can often avoid infections for years if the mask is used and fitted well. If most people are wearing them we would wipe out most respiratory disease spread. They are ridiculously effective and it's why they have been used in hospitals for decades when dealing high contagious conditions.
tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
Certainly, but the cost (in this case probably even the actual cost, but mostly in terms of impact on everyday life) is vastly higher with masks - they're inconvenient and annoying, and make social interaction harder. Meanwhile, air purifiers use a bit of power (probably less of an environmental impact than the inevitable littering of masks which are basically all microplastic while looking like harmless paper), probably cost less per filter change than a week's supply of mask, and have a relatively negligible comfort impact.

Could this be combined with masks for greater efficacy?

bluGill 2y ago

Most likely but nobody will allow you to suggest that.

roywiggins 2y ago
Kids of daycare age probably can't wear masks effectively enough to make a difference, and if they can, it's not obvious that it's worth the effort. Adults could probably reduce how many colds they get by wearing masks everywhere, but most people don't think it's worth the effort.
- eleveriven 2y ago
  Young children often struggle with keeping masks on properly and consistently, leading to frequent touching and adjusting...

dumbo-octopus 2y ago

Masks have directly contributed to a speech development epidemic amongst youth who were deprived of their ability to see and mimic mouth movements during their prime developmental stages. This has hit underprivileged kids who do not have english spoken at home especially hard. Masks aren’t free.

maeil 2y ago
Is there research that shows this? Should be incredibly easy to prove given a large percentage of the world consistently masked and another large percentage of the world consistently did not mask. For reference, I live in a country that had one of the highest masking rates in the world (probably top 10), and this does not seem to be an issue here whatsoever. Not a single time I've heard it mentioned, and given just how huge the focus on child development is here, there's no way it wouldn't be a massive topic.
- dumbo-octopus 2y ago
  I’ve spoken at length with individuals directly responsible for rehabilitation of such children. But of course if the facts go against the government narrative, the “studies” will not report them. Talk to people, not studies. Do you have many cases of children being in homes where they have limited access to people speaking the national language? Do you talk to individuals who are directly responsible for teaching those folks the language?
  - maeil 2y ago
    I think it was clear from my comment that I haven't heard a single person (not just study) here talk about it. While it's reasonable such an adverse effect would be stronger in cases where at home a different language is spoken than the national language, it's very unlikely that it would only have a noticeable effect for exactly those families, with zero noticeable effect otherwise. And here, where masking rates were extremely high and amount of attention put on/money spent on child development is higher than almost anywhere else in the world, no one has ever brought it up. This doesn't even touch upon the fact that unprivileged families are much harder hit by epidemics (let alone Covid) in general, due to a host of other factors. > But of course if the facts go against the government narrative, the “studies” will not report them. The studies showing that masks were incredibly effective at preventing disease spread went against the US "government narrative" at the time, since I imagine you're talking about the US.
    - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - NorthTheRock 2y ago
    > Talk to people, not studies. So literally calling for anecdotes over data?
    - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
      Anecdotes are data.
terminatornet 2y ago
not true https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9637007/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9637007/
- dumbo-octopus 2y ago
  I’ve talked to the boots on the ground. Government scientists publishing the official narrative are useless.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Why can't you provide any information, then?
    - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
      I just did. The specifics are of course confidential personal information from minors, you want me to publish them here?
      - terminatornet 2y ago
        source: trust me
        dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        Even if you do elect to trust the government mandated studies more than the special education teachers directly involved in the situation, the very study the parent cited attempting to discredit me also reaches the same conclusion as me: masks cause developmental damage and their use must be carefully considered, especially as it pertains to forcing young children who can’t say “no” to comply.
      - jbm 2y ago
        I'm sympathetic to your views about government policies manipulating which items get studied (see: previous conservative Canadian government muzzling scientists who made comments about oil) I also agree that personal anecdotes from trusted parties are more valuable to my decision making than "data" — but those are personal anecdotes, not anecdotes from anonymous Internet personas. We aren't your friends and we don't know you. Why should we trust you if you are vaguebooking about something that is a common conspiracy trope?

PaulKeeble 2y ago

N95/FFP2 Masks are even higher effectiveness. Even just one wearer can often avoid infections for years if the mask is used and fitted well. If most people are wearing them we would wipe out most respiratory disease spread. They are ridiculously effective and it's why they have been used in hospitals for decades when dealing high contagious conditions.

tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago

Certainly, but the cost (in this case probably even the actual cost, but mostly in terms of impact on everyday life) is vastly higher with masks - they're inconvenient and annoying, and make social interaction harder. Meanwhile, air purifiers use a bit of power (probably less of an environmental impact than the inevitable littering of masks which are basically all microplastic while looking like harmless paper), probably cost less per filter change than a week's supply of mask, and have a relatively negligible comfort impact.