4 ms·

This is how I felt when I first tried to figure out what common core math was, after I kept hearing about it. It sounded like the people who made it were trying

This is how I felt when I first tried to figure out what common core math was, after I kept hearing about it. It sounded like the people who made it were trying to create a process around what I would do in my head to try and solve a problem when I didn’t have paper or a calculator handy. What common core, and this reading approach, seem to miss is that those are things that come after learning the foundations and rules. I was taught with phonics, but 99% of words I read today are simply seen and recognized. Much like the 3 queuing method tries to create a process around. However, I think that is something that naturally develops through repetition. When someone reads the word “horse” and “house” enough times, the need to sound it out or read each letter goes away, but that’s not the starting point. As much as I like to think I can determine a word’s meaning through context, when put to the test, I often miss the mark. Reading on an e-reader lowers the barrier to looking up unfamiliar words and I find myself doing it more often. I find my assumption based on context can often be less than correct. Maybe I’m close, but there is more nuance to the actual definition. Sometimes I’m completely wrong and the whole meaning of the paragraph changes. Not to mention, if I look a word up to learn the actual meaning, it might be something I can introduce into my own speech and writing without sounding foolish. I relied on context a lot growing up, because I was too lazy to look things up. These days, with it being so easy, I don’t know why kids wouldn’t be encouraged to look up words they don’t know. I think my vocabulary would be much better had I grown up learning the words I didn’t know, instead of simply bypassing them.

ra120271 2y ago
I agree there is a development path to learning to read. My son is learning and during the phase of learning the phonics he would use the pictures a lot to help get context. You could tell because he would pause on each new page as he observed the graphics. But as he became more proficient he started using the graphics as a crutch to guess the words rather than sound them out and blend them. So I started covering the pictures with my hand as I turned the pages and his progress jumped ahead in the following weeks. He is still learning and falls into guessing patterns too easily. However through accompanied parent reading every night he is progressing well (IMO).
threatofrain 2y ago
> This is how I felt when I first tried to figure out what common core math was, after I kept hearing about it. It sounded like the people who made it were trying to create a process around what I would do in my head to try and solve a problem when I didn’t have paper or a calculator handy. > What common core, and this reading approach, seem to miss is that those are things that come after learning the foundations and rules. The CA Common Core for math¹ is a very tiny spec that can be easily read in a day for the entirety of K-12. It's a spec meant to coordinate textbook publishers, test makers, and other content creators. It offers very little restriction or guidance, in other words wide latitude, on pedagogical vision. [1]: https://www.cde.ca.gov/BE/ST/SS/documents/ccssmathstandardaug2013.pdf https://www.cde.ca.gov/BE/ST/SS/documents/ccssmathstandardau...
- mlyle 2y ago
  And what's there isn't too different from what's before, though pedagogical ideas that are now more in vogue (use of tape models) are mentioned prominently, and there's a lot more emphasis on students being able to explain what they've done and why it works.
romwell 2y ago
I'm sorry, but as a mathematician and educator, the comparison to Common Core is unwarranted. When you say it sounded like something to you, you communicate that you didn't understand what it actually meant and deduced the meaning through pattern-matching - which is exactly the problem here. Common Core aims to rectify the problems introduced during the "New Math" era (and before it, too), which, like the "three cueing", took sense out of the art of reasoning and imagination we call mathematics. To understand what I am talking about, I beg you (no exaggeration) to read Mathematician's Lament by Paul Lockhart[1]. It will give you an immediate understanding of how we teach mathematics wrong - like the article we are discussing exposes how we teach reading wrong. [1] https://worrydream.com/refs/Lockhart_2002_-_A_Mathematician's_Lament.pdf https://worrydream.com/refs/Lockhart_2002_-_A_Mathematician'...
- al_borland 2y ago
  That was an interesting read. I wasn't expecting to actually read 25 pages as a result of a comment here, but the author wrote with enough passion to hold my interest and presented some interesting ideas that I hadn't heard before. Thanks for sharing it and begging me to read it. I also went a watched a quick video on common core (which used a multiplication example) after reading Lockhart's paper, to try and better understand where I was going wrong, and where you were coming from. Prior to this, my last look at Common Core was many years ago, and fairly brief. It also lacked appropriate context, just the news, so I was entering with a bias (more on that bias later). I do agree that providing a formula and telling kids to use it 100 times to drill it into their head is probably not a great way to teach. A person can't really extrapolate on ideas when they aren't understood, but rather memorized. It wasn't until after collage that I stumbled across some gifs showing how/why various formulas in geometry are what they are, and I was really upset that those types of things weren't shown in school. All I had was Donald Duck in Mathmagic Land, lol. I find it much easier to remember things if I can conceptualize them and understand why something is the way it is. If I can deduce it myself, to the paper's point, that is even better. That way, even if I forget the formula, I know how to get back to it. My opinions on any change of the math curriculums have been colored by my own experience 25-ish years ago when my high school introduced Integrated Math, to replace the traditional track. My class was the first one without a choice. At the time we were told the idea behind Integrated Math was that no one needed high level math, so why bother preparing kids for it... which was an idea also touched on in the paper. I was planning on going into engineering and needing high level math, so that program kind of screwed me. To live in the author's perfect world, college would likely need to change as well to not assume knowledge of various things going into college level math programs. I liked math (or at least what I thought was math before reading that paper), and Integrated Math destroyed that for me. It was very unfortunate. A year after I graduated, I received a letter from my high school asking me about the program and what I thought of it after having been out for a year. I wrote a pretty scathing letter in response. The program was abandoned some years later. I tried to jump on the traditional track in college, but I did too well on the placement test, so they wouldn't let me take algebra, but didn't really get the foundation to effectively move forward into calc. To this day, I still feel like I have a gap due to missing out on the traditional math track in high school, and the ramifications that had on my college and career (not that I'm doing bad, I'm probably better off for it). Hindsight being 20/20, I didn't actually need it, but things do come up from time to time that make me think I missed out. I've attempted, to go back a few times to learn on my own. Without being in school, and the boring nature of most mathematics instruction, I've never gone that far. I like the ideas presented in the paper about viewing mathematics as art. At the risk of going against every point he was trying to make, are you aware of anything resources that teach mathematics through this lens that I could check out? Some sort of framework to give me problems to try to solve to lead me in the right direction, while also showing how to see math problems in the everyday and the solutions as art, instead of wandering around in the desert for the rest of my life hoping I stumble upon the problems/solutions that took centuries to uncover. Are some of the Common Core resources out there a good place, or is there something in the spirit of Lockhart's paper that is better?
acoustics 2y ago
Common core math has its issues, especially with teacher training, textbooks, and bad assessments. But I wouldn't lump it in with three-cueing, which sits squarely in opposition to decades of research. For example, I don't think that kids who struggle with common core math and then switch to the "normal way" (the way their parents learned) will have a leap in ability the way that kids who switch from three-cueing to phonics do. At least half of the problem with common core math is that parents get a pit in their stomach when they look at their kid's homework and discover that they aren't familiar with the methods. The angst will lessen over time as we start to have kids whose parents grew up with the new methods. There's certainly a long road ahead in getting math education right, but I imagine the long-term solution will look more like common core than the 20th century curriculum.
- nostrademons 2y ago
  > For example, I don't think that kids who struggle with common core math and then switch to the "normal way" (the way their parents learned) will have a leap in ability the way that kids who switch from three-cueing to phonics do. I'm not quite sure that's true. In my city, there is a local charter school that teaches math with only Common Core methods. The local public school teaches primarily Common Core, but also supplements it with Houghton-Mifflin workbooks of the sort that we learned 30 years ago. By 4th grade, the public school's math proficiency rates are 20 points higher than the charter school's. They draw from similar socioeconomic demographics - if anything, the charter school parents tend to be a bit more affluent and involved in their kids' educations than the public school's.
  - mlyle 2y ago
    As said elsewhere, there's not really such a thing as common core mathematical methods. The main way they differ from what came before is that the CC standards expect students to be able to explain more of what they're doing and why, which is pushing a lot of people building curriculum to emphasize visual methods, bar models, etc. But that's not part of CC per se.
    - 2y ago

ra120271 2y ago

I agree there is a development path to learning to read. My son is learning and during the phase of learning the phonics he would use the pictures a lot to help get context. You could tell because he would pause on each new page as he observed the graphics. But as he became more proficient he started using the graphics as a crutch to guess the words rather than sound them out and blend them. So I started covering the pictures with my hand as I turned the pages and his progress jumped ahead in the following weeks. He is still learning and falls into guessing patterns too easily. However through accompanied parent reading every night he is progressing well (IMO).

threatofrain 2y ago

> This is how I felt when I first tried to figure out what common core math was, after I kept hearing about it. It sounded like the people who made it were trying to create a process around what I would do in my head to try and solve a problem when I didn’t have paper or a calculator handy. > What common core, and this reading approach, seem to miss is that those are things that come after learning the foundations and rules. The CA Common Core for math¹ is a very tiny spec that can be easily read in a day for the entirety of K-12. It's a spec meant to coordinate textbook publishers, test makers, and other content creators. It offers very little restriction or guidance, in other words wide latitude, on pedagogical vision. [1]: https://www.cde.ca.gov/BE/ST/SS/documents/ccssmathstandardaug2013.pdf https://www.cde.ca.gov/BE/ST/SS/documents/ccssmathstandardau...

mlyle 2y ago
And what's there isn't too different from what's before, though pedagogical ideas that are now more in vogue (use of tape models) are mentioned prominently, and there's a lot more emphasis on students being able to explain what they've done and why it works.

romwell 2y ago

I'm sorry, but as a mathematician and educator, the comparison to Common Core is unwarranted. When you say it sounded like something to you, you communicate that you didn't understand what it actually meant and deduced the meaning through pattern-matching - which is exactly the problem here. Common Core aims to rectify the problems introduced during the "New Math" era (and before it, too), which, like the "three cueing", took sense out of the art of reasoning and imagination we call mathematics. To understand what I am talking about, I beg you (no exaggeration) to read Mathematician's Lament by Paul Lockhart[1]. It will give you an immediate understanding of how we teach mathematics wrong - like the article we are discussing exposes how we teach reading wrong. [1] https://worrydream.com/refs/Lockhart_2002_-_A_Mathematician's_Lament.pdf https://worrydream.com/refs/Lockhart_2002_-_A_Mathematician'...

al_borland 2y ago
That was an interesting read. I wasn't expecting to actually read 25 pages as a result of a comment here, but the author wrote with enough passion to hold my interest and presented some interesting ideas that I hadn't heard before. Thanks for sharing it and begging me to read it. I also went a watched a quick video on common core (which used a multiplication example) after reading Lockhart's paper, to try and better understand where I was going wrong, and where you were coming from. Prior to this, my last look at Common Core was many years ago, and fairly brief. It also lacked appropriate context, just the news, so I was entering with a bias (more on that bias later). I do agree that providing a formula and telling kids to use it 100 times to drill it into their head is probably not a great way to teach. A person can't really extrapolate on ideas when they aren't understood, but rather memorized. It wasn't until after collage that I stumbled across some gifs showing how/why various formulas in geometry are what they are, and I was really upset that those types of things weren't shown in school. All I had was Donald Duck in Mathmagic Land, lol. I find it much easier to remember things if I can conceptualize them and understand why something is the way it is. If I can deduce it myself, to the paper's point, that is even better. That way, even if I forget the formula, I know how to get back to it. My opinions on any change of the math curriculums have been colored by my own experience 25-ish years ago when my high school introduced Integrated Math, to replace the traditional track. My class was the first one without a choice. At the time we were told the idea behind Integrated Math was that no one needed high level math, so why bother preparing kids for it... which was an idea also touched on in the paper. I was planning on going into engineering and needing high level math, so that program kind of screwed me. To live in the author's perfect world, college would likely need to change as well to not assume knowledge of various things going into college level math programs. I liked math (or at least what I thought was math before reading that paper), and Integrated Math destroyed that for me. It was very unfortunate. A year after I graduated, I received a letter from my high school asking me about the program and what I thought of it after having been out for a year. I wrote a pretty scathing letter in response. The program was abandoned some years later. I tried to jump on the traditional track in college, but I did too well on the placement test, so they wouldn't let me take algebra, but didn't really get the foundation to effectively move forward into calc. To this day, I still feel like I have a gap due to missing out on the traditional math track in high school, and the ramifications that had on my college and career (not that I'm doing bad, I'm probably better off for it). Hindsight being 20/20, I didn't actually need it, but things do come up from time to time that make me think I missed out. I've attempted, to go back a few times to learn on my own. Without being in school, and the boring nature of most mathematics instruction, I've never gone that far. I like the ideas presented in the paper about viewing mathematics as art. At the risk of going against every point he was trying to make, are you aware of anything resources that teach mathematics through this lens that I could check out? Some sort of framework to give me problems to try to solve to lead me in the right direction, while also showing how to see math problems in the everyday and the solutions as art, instead of wandering around in the desert for the rest of my life hoping I stumble upon the problems/solutions that took centuries to uncover. Are some of the Common Core resources out there a good place, or is there something in the spirit of Lockhart's paper that is better?

acoustics 2y ago

Common core math has its issues, especially with teacher training, textbooks, and bad assessments. But I wouldn't lump it in with three-cueing, which sits squarely in opposition to decades of research. For example, I don't think that kids who struggle with common core math and then switch to the "normal way" (the way their parents learned) will have a leap in ability the way that kids who switch from three-cueing to phonics do. At least half of the problem with common core math is that parents get a pit in their stomach when they look at their kid's homework and discover that they aren't familiar with the methods. The angst will lessen over time as we start to have kids whose parents grew up with the new methods. There's certainly a long road ahead in getting math education right, but I imagine the long-term solution will look more like common core than the 20th century curriculum.

nostrademons 2y ago
> For example, I don't think that kids who struggle with common core math and then switch to the "normal way" (the way their parents learned) will have a leap in ability the way that kids who switch from three-cueing to phonics do. I'm not quite sure that's true. In my city, there is a local charter school that teaches math with only Common Core methods. The local public school teaches primarily Common Core, but also supplements it with Houghton-Mifflin workbooks of the sort that we learned 30 years ago. By 4th grade, the public school's math proficiency rates are 20 points higher than the charter school's. They draw from similar socioeconomic demographics - if anything, the charter school parents tend to be a bit more affluent and involved in their kids' educations than the public school's.
- mlyle 2y ago
  As said elsewhere, there's not really such a thing as common core mathematical methods. The main way they differ from what came before is that the CC standards expect students to be able to explain more of what they're doing and why, which is pushing a lot of people building curriculum to emphasize visual methods, bar models, etc. But that's not part of CC per se.
  - 2y ago