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Durov is full of shit. He'd have you believe that all messages are welcome on Telegram, that no material is censored, that it's all about free expression, that

Durov is full of shit. He'd have you believe that all messages are welcome on Telegram, that no material is censored, that it's all about free expression, that they're too small to provide moderation. But when an account is flagged for spam, Telegram rapidly responds and restricts or kills the account. So they can and do moderate content. It's just that accounts can get flagged for CSAM hundreds of times and Telegram takes no action. They're making a choice to provide a platform for this material. That's against the law and prison time is absolutely justified.

walterbell 2y ago
In cases where there is public evidence of illegal activity, where incidents have been reported to law enforcement, does Telegram provide LE with account information (e.g. phone number) for further investigation? Similar to Apple transparency reports? https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://restoreprivacy.com/telegram-sharing-user-data/ https://restoreprivacy.com/telegram-sharing-user-data/ > the operators of the messenger app Telegram have released user data to the Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) in several cases. According to SPIEGEL information, this was data from suspects in the areas of child abuse and terrorism. In the case of violations of other criminal offenses, it is still difficult for German investigators to obtain information from Telegram, according to security circles. Signal and Telegram were publicly sparring in May 2024, https://threema.ch/en/blog/posts/chat-apps-government-ties-and-transparency https://threema.ch/en/blog/posts/chat-apps-government-ties-a... > two popular chat services have accused each other of having undisclosed government ties. According to Signal president Meredith Whittaker, Telegram is not only “notoriously insecure” but also “routinely cooperates with governments behind the scenes.” Telegram founder Pavel Durov, on the other hand, claims that “the US government spent $3 million to build Signal’s encryption” and Signal’s current leaders are “activists used by the US state department for regime change abroad.”
- codedokode 2y ago
  > In the case of violations of other criminal offenses, "other offences" probably means copyright issues?
- bryanrasmussen 2y ago
  >“notoriously insecure” sounds logical and can probably be checked! >"routinely cooperates with governments behind the scenes.” sounds logical and being a big company I suppose true. >“the US government spent $3 million to build Signal’s encryption” sounds probable, meaning they got funding from some NSA project. >“activists used by the US state department for regime change abroad.” this sounds a bit crazy!
  - bryanrasmussen 2y ago
    evidently I'm getting downvoted because people have some opinions about these statements but they're also not able to enunciate what those opinions are even though they must be at odds with my opinions. The classiest type of HN downvoter there is!
deleted 2y ago
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cryptonector 2y ago
> But when an account is flagged for spam, Telegram rapidly responds [...] In my experience it's the channel's admins who respond, not Telegram's. If that's the case then CSAM not getting actioned is probably just channel admins allowing content that they approve of.
- panarky 2y ago
  In my experience, CSAM accounts get flagged many times, channel owners remove the account from their channels, but the account continues to post the material elsewhere.
  - cryptonector 2y ago
    This wouldn't surprise me in the least. My guess is that Telegram just doesn't put much effort into busting either spam or CSAM. They let channel admins do it. I suspect that Telegram could put significantly more effort into CSAM suppression and enforcement, but I seriously doubt this is really what's up with the French arrest of Durov.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
Spam is very easily defined and identified, no need to read anything or to look at any images. If you message someone for the first time, they can click a report button and bam it's automatic weekly spam ban for you. Do it three times, forever ban.
deleted 2y ago
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walterbell 2y ago

In cases where there is public evidence of illegal activity, where incidents have been reported to law enforcement, does Telegram provide LE with account information (e.g. phone number) for further investigation? Similar to Apple transparency reports? https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://restoreprivacy.com/telegram-sharing-user-data/ https://restoreprivacy.com/telegram-sharing-user-data/ > the operators of the messenger app Telegram have released user data to the Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) in several cases. According to SPIEGEL information, this was data from suspects in the areas of child abuse and terrorism. In the case of violations of other criminal offenses, it is still difficult for German investigators to obtain information from Telegram, according to security circles. Signal and Telegram were publicly sparring in May 2024, https://threema.ch/en/blog/posts/chat-apps-government-ties-and-transparency https://threema.ch/en/blog/posts/chat-apps-government-ties-a... > two popular chat services have accused each other of having undisclosed government ties. According to Signal president Meredith Whittaker, Telegram is not only “notoriously insecure” but also “routinely cooperates with governments behind the scenes.” Telegram founder Pavel Durov, on the other hand, claims that “the US government spent $3 million to build Signal’s encryption” and Signal’s current leaders are “activists used by the US state department for regime change abroad.”

codedokode 2y ago
> In the case of violations of other criminal offenses, "other offences" probably means copyright issues?
bryanrasmussen 2y ago
>“notoriously insecure” sounds logical and can probably be checked! >"routinely cooperates with governments behind the scenes.” sounds logical and being a big company I suppose true. >“the US government spent $3 million to build Signal’s encryption” sounds probable, meaning they got funding from some NSA project. >“activists used by the US state department for regime change abroad.” this sounds a bit crazy!
- bryanrasmussen 2y ago
  evidently I'm getting downvoted because people have some opinions about these statements but they're also not able to enunciate what those opinions are even though they must be at odds with my opinions. The classiest type of HN downvoter there is!

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

cryptonector 2y ago

> But when an account is flagged for spam, Telegram rapidly responds [...] In my experience it's the channel's admins who respond, not Telegram's. If that's the case then CSAM not getting actioned is probably just channel admins allowing content that they approve of.

panarky 2y ago
In my experience, CSAM accounts get flagged many times, channel owners remove the account from their channels, but the account continues to post the material elsewhere.
- cryptonector 2y ago
  This wouldn't surprise me in the least. My guess is that Telegram just doesn't put much effort into busting either spam or CSAM. They let channel admins do it. I suspect that Telegram could put significantly more effort into CSAM suppression and enforcement, but I seriously doubt this is really what's up with the French arrest of Durov.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago

Spam is very easily defined and identified, no need to read anything or to look at any images. If you message someone for the first time, they can click a report button and bam it's automatic weekly spam ban for you. Do it three times, forever ban.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]