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"Also if you're using a language/setup that isn't too efficient, then AWS may be a second best option to switching language/framework etc." What? The monthly c

"Also if you're using a language/setup that isn't too efficient, then AWS may be a second best option to switching language/framework etc." What? The monthly cost of a server is equivalent to a few hours of dev time. That's money better spent on making new things, not premature optimization. I'm all for easy fixes that speed things up, but you rarely need to switch language/framework to do it. Doubly so because slower languages like Python and Ruby make it easy to plug in bits of fast C. More likely than not, someone has already done that, and you just need to start using a better library.

axod 18y ago
It depends what you're making. Some webapps might need 10 servers if you write it in php or ruby on rails, but may only need 1 server if you write it in c/java/something else. For example, I could probably run Mibbit on around 50 servers if I just used apache/python/php/ror. And as far as I know that's pretty much what Meebo did. They had the money to throw at hardware. The alternative though is to re-architect and optimize at the early stages. It's a longer term investment. I've spent a lot of time in my case, but I've saved a lot of scalability headache and cost, later on.
- figured 18y ago
  "Some webapps might need 10 servers if you write it in php or ruby on rails, but may only need 1 server if you write it in c/java/something else" @axod, this statement is completely out to lunch. I don't even know where to start.
  - axod 18y ago
    You don't believe a custom written lower level implementation would be more efficient than using a general purpose framework stack?
    - njharman 18y ago
      I think he believes network or disk i/o becomes the dominate factor long before cpu for 99% of webapps.
      - axod 18y ago
        I'm not talking about the speed at which code executes, I'm talking about how many users you can support with a single server. Or how many servers do you need to support N users.
        figured 18y ago
        axod, you set yourself up with the 10 to 1 comment. I work every day in C# and we are currently moving all development to Java, at home I code in ruby. I will tell you from experience that your language plays a very small part in how fast your web app works. I will say without a doubt that programmer competence is the real factor. How the code is written will determine more how it runs. But for the sake of argument I can guarantee that if you wrote a web app the exact same way in Java and then ruby, or basically any modern language, one would not consume 10 times the resources of the other. Other factors will start to bottleneck you long before that, bandwidth, memory, cpu, etc.
        axod 18y ago
        I'm not talking about pure language choice. When you write php, you probably have to put up with apache. Maybe you also put up with using a database. It's those things that can limit your scalability.

axod 18y ago

It depends what you're making. Some webapps might need 10 servers if you write it in php or ruby on rails, but may only need 1 server if you write it in c/java/something else. For example, I could probably run Mibbit on around 50 servers if I just used apache/python/php/ror. And as far as I know that's pretty much what Meebo did. They had the money to throw at hardware. The alternative though is to re-architect and optimize at the early stages. It's a longer term investment. I've spent a lot of time in my case, but I've saved a lot of scalability headache and cost, later on.

figured 18y ago
"Some webapps might need 10 servers if you write it in php or ruby on rails, but may only need 1 server if you write it in c/java/something else" @axod, this statement is completely out to lunch. I don't even know where to start.
- axod 18y ago
  You don't believe a custom written lower level implementation would be more efficient than using a general purpose framework stack?
  - njharman 18y ago
    I think he believes network or disk i/o becomes the dominate factor long before cpu for 99% of webapps.
    - axod 18y ago
      I'm not talking about the speed at which code executes, I'm talking about how many users you can support with a single server. Or how many servers do you need to support N users.
      - figured 18y ago
        axod, you set yourself up with the 10 to 1 comment. I work every day in C# and we are currently moving all development to Java, at home I code in ruby. I will tell you from experience that your language plays a very small part in how fast your web app works. I will say without a doubt that programmer competence is the real factor. How the code is written will determine more how it runs. But for the sake of argument I can guarantee that if you wrote a web app the exact same way in Java and then ruby, or basically any modern language, one would not consume 10 times the resources of the other. Other factors will start to bottleneck you long before that, bandwidth, memory, cpu, etc.
        axod 18y ago
        I'm not talking about pure language choice. When you write php, you probably have to put up with apache. Maybe you also put up with using a database. It's those things that can limit your scalability.