4 ms·

Famous quote that if you sacrifice freedom for security, you will get neither.

by chucke1992 2y ago

GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
[flagged]
- mandmandam 2y ago
  As was the fashion at the time, in the land of the free.
  - GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
    I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.
    - mandmandam 2y ago
      And I have no idea what you think you're adding to the discussion by adding this 'context'. That phrase has a life of its own, and has stood the test of time. When someone says that e=mc2, do you feel a need to make sure everyone knows the 'context' that Einstein took credit for some of his wife's work? When someone quotes Gandhi to say "Be the change that you wish to see in the world", do you talk about him sleeping in a bed with his niece? By the way, if you live in the West then your comfortable lifestyle is based on the work of slaves of various degrees. From forced prison laborers in America to cobalt and lithium miners in Africa, to actual full-on slave markets in Libya because tptb didn't like how un-exploitable the country was getting. We're all hypocrites, and pointing that out when it's not relevant just derails discussion. Btw, Ben Franklin became an abolitionist later in life. He was elected as the president of the Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery around 1785.
- deepburner 2y ago
  Not only you're responding with an ad-hominem, which is blatantly bad enough; but you're doing it against Benjamin Franklin? One of the most influential thinkers of his time who has contributed to the liberty of way more people than you ever will?
  - GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
    context is not ad hominem. Ben Franklin was a hypocrite.
  - wwtrv 2y ago
    > Benjamin Franklin Supposedly that's not his quote though? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41342251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41342251
Terr_ 2y ago
*sigh* Dude, if it's really that relevant and compelling at least quote it properly. It's 2024, finding and copy-pasting is barely slower than typing a bad paraphrase. > Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- A committee which included Benjamin Franklin _____________ That said, this quote is typically misused, or at best being used wayyy outside its original context. [0] The Penn family, the local semi-nobility of Pennsylvania, are offering the government a one-time "donation"... in exchange for getting a perpetual exemption from all taxes. A committee of elected representatives--among them Franklin--are strongly opposed to it, since they believe the democratic legislature's "essential Liberty" to impose taxes for its citizens is way more important than any "temporary Safety" of a one-time lump sum. [0] https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-06-02-0107 https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-06-02-01...
- biscottigelato 2y ago
  He's finding it applicable more than the narrow historical context and using it here. You can disagree with it but its not a 'misuse'
- rightbyte 2y ago
  Heh. So the liberty in the context is the liberty to tax? Like, all uses of the quote I have seen has been in spirit of something of the opposite.
- immibis 2y ago
  And the key words in this quote are not Liberty and Safety even though they are capitalized - they are "essential" and "a little temporary". As long as these key words remain, the quote can be about anything: Those who would give up essential Long-Term Economic Stability, to purchase a little temporary Shareholder Profits, deserve neither Long-Term Economic Stability nor Shareholder Profits. Those who would give up essential Vendor Independence, to purchase a little temporary High-Resolution Retina Display, deserve neither Vendor Independence nor High-Resolution Retina Display. Those who would give up essential Safety, to purchase a little temporary Liberty, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Those who would give up essential Refrigerator, to purchase a little temporary Stockpile of Peanut Butter, deserve neither Refrigerator nor Stockpile of Peanut Butter.

Famous quote that if you sacrifice freedom for security, you will get neither.

GuinansEyebrows 2y ago

[flagged]

mandmandam 2y ago
As was the fashion at the time, in the land of the free.
- GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
  I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.
  - mandmandam 2y ago
    And I have no idea what you think you're adding to the discussion by adding this 'context'. That phrase has a life of its own, and has stood the test of time. When someone says that e=mc2, do you feel a need to make sure everyone knows the 'context' that Einstein took credit for some of his wife's work? When someone quotes Gandhi to say "Be the change that you wish to see in the world", do you talk about him sleeping in a bed with his niece? By the way, if you live in the West then your comfortable lifestyle is based on the work of slaves of various degrees. From forced prison laborers in America to cobalt and lithium miners in Africa, to actual full-on slave markets in Libya because tptb didn't like how un-exploitable the country was getting. We're all hypocrites, and pointing that out when it's not relevant just derails discussion. Btw, Ben Franklin became an abolitionist later in life. He was elected as the president of the Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery around 1785.
deepburner 2y ago
Not only you're responding with an ad-hominem, which is blatantly bad enough; but you're doing it against Benjamin Franklin? One of the most influential thinkers of his time who has contributed to the liberty of way more people than you ever will?
- GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
  context is not ad hominem. Ben Franklin was a hypocrite.
- wwtrv 2y ago
  > Benjamin Franklin Supposedly that's not his quote though? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41342251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41342251

Terr_ 2y ago

*sigh* Dude, if it's really that relevant and compelling at least quote it properly. It's 2024, finding and copy-pasting is barely slower than typing a bad paraphrase. > Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- A committee which included Benjamin Franklin _____________ That said, this quote is typically misused, or at best being used wayyy outside its original context. [0] The Penn family, the local semi-nobility of Pennsylvania, are offering the government a one-time "donation"... in exchange for getting a perpetual exemption from all taxes. A committee of elected representatives--among them Franklin--are strongly opposed to it, since they believe the democratic legislature's "essential Liberty" to impose taxes for its citizens is way more important than any "temporary Safety" of a one-time lump sum. [0] https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-06-02-0107 https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-06-02-01...

biscottigelato 2y ago
He's finding it applicable more than the narrow historical context and using it here. You can disagree with it but its not a 'misuse'
rightbyte 2y ago
Heh. So the liberty in the context is the liberty to tax? Like, all uses of the quote I have seen has been in spirit of something of the opposite.
immibis 2y ago
And the key words in this quote are not Liberty and Safety even though they are capitalized - they are "essential" and "a little temporary". As long as these key words remain, the quote can be about anything: Those who would give up essential Long-Term Economic Stability, to purchase a little temporary Shareholder Profits, deserve neither Long-Term Economic Stability nor Shareholder Profits. Those who would give up essential Vendor Independence, to purchase a little temporary High-Resolution Retina Display, deserve neither Vendor Independence nor High-Resolution Retina Display. Those who would give up essential Safety, to purchase a little temporary Liberty, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Those who would give up essential Refrigerator, to purchase a little temporary Stockpile of Peanut Butter, deserve neither Refrigerator nor Stockpile of Peanut Butter.