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and the government should continue to fund private enterprise for innovation. much of the billions for a charger network for EVs has made <10 chargers, they co

and the government should continue to fund private enterprise for innovation. much of the billions for a charger network for EVs has made <10 chargers, they could have provided that to Tesla. similarly the EV tax credits provided to private companies has fueled EV proliferation

ceejayoz 2y ago
The charger thing is misleading. The money hasn't been spent yet, it goes to states to use, and the goal is 2030. https://www.factcheck.org/2024/08/trump-misleads-on-the-cost-of-electric-vehicle-chargers/ https://www.factcheck.org/2024/08/trump-misleads-on-the-cost... > Just looking at the $5 billion program dedicated to building charging stations along major highways, Nigro said updated data from 10 states shows the government’s share of building each port is $150,000, on average. That works out to more than 30,000 ports and as many as 7,500 stations, assuming each has four ports (Nigro said the station number will likely be lower, since many stations will have more ports). Even more charging stations and ports can be built with the other $2.5 billion. They did Tesla an enormous favor by pushing the other car manufacturers to adopt their standard. A good use of government power, IMO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Charging_Standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Charging_Standa...
- avsteele 2y ago
  2030 for 500K chargers is just separate political goal, it isn't connected to the $7.5B allocated by the bill. The bill allocates $7.5B over 5 years. He said most will be coming online 2027+ but seemed to admit that the expectation was for more to be online by now. While I agree the "9 stations for $7.5B" there are reasonable concerns here that the money will be well-spent. I can't even find anything on how much has been actually allocated to far and how many chargers are expected. https://d1dth6e84htgma.cloudfront.net/02_22_24_Letter_to_Secretary_Granholm_and_Secretary_Buttigieg_3c7296b2b5.pdf https://d1dth6e84htgma.cloudfront.net/02_22_24_Letter_to_Sec...
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    > 2030 for 500K chargers is just separate political goal, it isn't connected to the $7.5B allocated by the bill. Yes, it is. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/05/congress-ev-chargers-billions-00129996 https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/05/congress-ev-charger... "Biden signed the bipartisan infrastructure package into law in 2021 with $7.5 billion specifically directed toward EV chargers, with an eye toward achieving his goal of building 500,000 chargers in the United States by 2030." > The bill allocates $7.5B over 5 years. Yes, to hand out to the states. Who then get to spend it on projects. Allocation is the start of the project, not the end. https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/12744 https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/12744 "FHWA must distribute the NEVI Program Formula Program funds made available each fiscal year (FY) through FY 2026, so that each state receives an amount equal to the state FHWA funding formula determined by 23 U.S. Code 104. To receive funding, states must submit plans to the FHWA and the Joint Office of Energy and Transportation for review and public posting annually, describing how the state intends to distribute NEVI funds. The FHWA announced approval of all initial state plans on September 27, 2022, and FY2024 plans were approved in 2023." > https://d1dth6e84htgma.cloudfront.net/02_22_24_Letter_to_Secretary_Granholm_and_Secretary_Buttigieg_3c7296b2b5.pdf https://d1dth6e84htgma.cloudfront.net/02_22_24_Letter_to_Sec... You'll find me fairly unconvinced by a letter from Republican House Representatives to Biden. (You probably would find a letter from Democratic reps to Trump similarly useless as evidence.)
    - avsteele 2y ago
      Incorrect. The number of stations does not appear in the bill. https://www.congress.gov/117/plaws/publ58/PLAW-117publ58.pdf https://www.congress.gov/117/plaws/publ58/PLAW-117publ58.pdf The 500,000 charger was a campaign promise in 2020 not directly connected to the funding allocated in 2021 https://grist.org/energy/biden-wants-to-build-500000-ev-charging-stations-where-will-they-all-go/ https://grist.org/energy/biden-wants-to-build-500000-ev-char...
- misiti3780 2y ago
  How does the government determine where to put all these new chargers?
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    The dataset is publicly available. https://data.nrel.gov/submissions/214 https://data.nrel.gov/submissions/214 https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2023/building-the-2030-national-charging-network.html https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2023/building-the-2030-nat...
- adolph 2y ago
  > The charger thing is misleading. The money hasn't been spent yet Not certain if that is any better. If an organization can't execute, it can't execute. It doesn't matter if it is some frankenstein of Boeing prime contractor and Rocketjet subcontractor or Federal and States.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    Sure, and if we’re still at ten completed charging stations in a few years, I’m happy to criticize. I think that’s unlikely. Phase one is “submit your plans”. Phase two is “we review, approve, and fund your plans”. I’m not surprised these have taken a while to coordinate across 50 state governments.
seo-speedwagon 2y ago
Turning Elon Musk into the richest person on earth was a US government project on the same kind of scale as the TVA and Apollo program. It’s actually kinda funny when you think about it.
- vessenes 2y ago
  This is reductive, in the extreme, to the point of being incorrect. SpaceX had to sue to win its first contracts, Tesla was actively cut out of Biden administration EV programs and awards. Whatever success they've had, they have absolutely earned.
  - NavinF 2y ago
    > Tesla was actively cut out of Biden administration EV programs and awards Incidentally this was the inception of the Tech Right. Before that, Elon exclusively voted for Democrats. I didn't realize the impact back then: https://x.com/mualphaxi/status/1817562306764566824 https://x.com/mualphaxi/status/1817562306764566824
- kuthmano 2y ago
  the command of critical projects Elon has is unnatural. He builds his massive projects with no permits or regulatory approvals; see: - the massive supercomputer in Memphis, no power power approval from TVA and did do an EIA. The city council never new about the project. - Starship and Starbase, no lauch approval - Tesla FSD, no regulatory approval -Starlink version 2 upgrade, the competition is still fight. Again, no approval and many more.. all this projects a massive like really massive.. True Elon is a government project.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    Starship and Starbase both required extensive government approvals, including for each launch so far.

ceejayoz 2y ago

The charger thing is misleading. The money hasn't been spent yet, it goes to states to use, and the goal is 2030. https://www.factcheck.org/2024/08/trump-misleads-on-the-cost-of-electric-vehicle-chargers/ https://www.factcheck.org/2024/08/trump-misleads-on-the-cost... > Just looking at the $5 billion program dedicated to building charging stations along major highways, Nigro said updated data from 10 states shows the government’s share of building each port is $150,000, on average. That works out to more than 30,000 ports and as many as 7,500 stations, assuming each has four ports (Nigro said the station number will likely be lower, since many stations will have more ports). Even more charging stations and ports can be built with the other $2.5 billion. They did Tesla an enormous favor by pushing the other car manufacturers to adopt their standard. A good use of government power, IMO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Charging_Standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Charging_Standa...

avsteele 2y ago
2030 for 500K chargers is just separate political goal, it isn't connected to the $7.5B allocated by the bill. The bill allocates $7.5B over 5 years. He said most will be coming online 2027+ but seemed to admit that the expectation was for more to be online by now. While I agree the "9 stations for $7.5B" there are reasonable concerns here that the money will be well-spent. I can't even find anything on how much has been actually allocated to far and how many chargers are expected. https://d1dth6e84htgma.cloudfront.net/02_22_24_Letter_to_Secretary_Granholm_and_Secretary_Buttigieg_3c7296b2b5.pdf https://d1dth6e84htgma.cloudfront.net/02_22_24_Letter_to_Sec...
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  > 2030 for 500K chargers is just separate political goal, it isn't connected to the $7.5B allocated by the bill. Yes, it is. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/05/congress-ev-chargers-billions-00129996 https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/05/congress-ev-charger... "Biden signed the bipartisan infrastructure package into law in 2021 with $7.5 billion specifically directed toward EV chargers, with an eye toward achieving his goal of building 500,000 chargers in the United States by 2030." > The bill allocates $7.5B over 5 years. Yes, to hand out to the states. Who then get to spend it on projects. Allocation is the start of the project, not the end. https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/12744 https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/12744 "FHWA must distribute the NEVI Program Formula Program funds made available each fiscal year (FY) through FY 2026, so that each state receives an amount equal to the state FHWA funding formula determined by 23 U.S. Code 104. To receive funding, states must submit plans to the FHWA and the Joint Office of Energy and Transportation for review and public posting annually, describing how the state intends to distribute NEVI funds. The FHWA announced approval of all initial state plans on September 27, 2022, and FY2024 plans were approved in 2023." > https://d1dth6e84htgma.cloudfront.net/02_22_24_Letter_to_Secretary_Granholm_and_Secretary_Buttigieg_3c7296b2b5.pdf https://d1dth6e84htgma.cloudfront.net/02_22_24_Letter_to_Sec... You'll find me fairly unconvinced by a letter from Republican House Representatives to Biden. (You probably would find a letter from Democratic reps to Trump similarly useless as evidence.)
  - avsteele 2y ago
    Incorrect. The number of stations does not appear in the bill. https://www.congress.gov/117/plaws/publ58/PLAW-117publ58.pdf https://www.congress.gov/117/plaws/publ58/PLAW-117publ58.pdf The 500,000 charger was a campaign promise in 2020 not directly connected to the funding allocated in 2021 https://grist.org/energy/biden-wants-to-build-500000-ev-charging-stations-where-will-they-all-go/ https://grist.org/energy/biden-wants-to-build-500000-ev-char...
misiti3780 2y ago
How does the government determine where to put all these new chargers?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  The dataset is publicly available. https://data.nrel.gov/submissions/214 https://data.nrel.gov/submissions/214 https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2023/building-the-2030-national-charging-network.html https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2023/building-the-2030-nat...
adolph 2y ago
> The charger thing is misleading. The money hasn't been spent yet Not certain if that is any better. If an organization can't execute, it can't execute. It doesn't matter if it is some frankenstein of Boeing prime contractor and Rocketjet subcontractor or Federal and States.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Sure, and if we’re still at ten completed charging stations in a few years, I’m happy to criticize. I think that’s unlikely. Phase one is “submit your plans”. Phase two is “we review, approve, and fund your plans”. I’m not surprised these have taken a while to coordinate across 50 state governments.

seo-speedwagon 2y ago

Turning Elon Musk into the richest person on earth was a US government project on the same kind of scale as the TVA and Apollo program. It’s actually kinda funny when you think about it.

vessenes 2y ago
This is reductive, in the extreme, to the point of being incorrect. SpaceX had to sue to win its first contracts, Tesla was actively cut out of Biden administration EV programs and awards. Whatever success they've had, they have absolutely earned.
- NavinF 2y ago
  > Tesla was actively cut out of Biden administration EV programs and awards Incidentally this was the inception of the Tech Right. Before that, Elon exclusively voted for Democrats. I didn't realize the impact back then: https://x.com/mualphaxi/status/1817562306764566824 https://x.com/mualphaxi/status/1817562306764566824
kuthmano 2y ago
the command of critical projects Elon has is unnatural. He builds his massive projects with no permits or regulatory approvals; see: - the massive supercomputer in Memphis, no power power approval from TVA and did do an EIA. The city council never new about the project. - Starship and Starbase, no lauch approval - Tesla FSD, no regulatory approval -Starlink version 2 upgrade, the competition is still fight. Again, no approval and many more.. all this projects a massive like really massive.. True Elon is a government project.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Starship and Starbase both required extensive government approvals, including for each launch so far.