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I don’t want to live in a world where every 6 months I need to add an extra hop to find an album on Spotify, where Google abruptly retires applications I came t

I don’t want to live in a world where every 6 months I need to add an extra hop to find an album on Spotify, where Google abruptly retires applications I came to rely on, where Microsoft places ads in my taskbar, where Apple keeps me from running the software I want and Amazon acquires companies to let their products, which I use, rot to death. This also brings up another point which I think is sometimes missed - open vs closed DATA formats. Obsidian is a good example. The software is entirely proprietary but the files it uses are standard markdown, so if the software "rots" it is not nearly as much of an issue. Contrast this with some inscrutable binary format (cough PSD cough) where its significantly more difficult to ingest the files without reverse engineering the format. My acceptable criteria are either: - Open source and open format - Closed source and open format

Log_out_ 2y ago
Where some interface designer from hell redesigns shortcuts for gateway applications like firefox..
braden-lk 2y ago
Huge obsidian fan, but I do think it’s interesting how the plug-in ecosystem interacts with the open format idea. The plug-in system is a huge draw for many people, but you can bit rot your own vault by applying plugins that define their own syntaxes. The format is still technically open, but you can inadvertently create your own custom protocol that only works in one place. Probably a worthy trade off for the flexibility and Freedom, but it’s an illustrative example of the influence of human factors on software design.
- rpdillon 2y ago
  This is an extremely good point that I don't see mentioned often enough, and is the primary reason I have not settled on Markdown for my notes. Markdown is a pretty thin format, and for anything sophisticated you have to have some kind of extension, and that immediately locks you into that particular tool, even if that tool is open source. For what it's worth, I ended up using TiddlyWiki because it's completely open source and self-contained. And so it doesn't require the upgrade treadmill that other software does. But I'm just as locked-in to TiddlyWiki as other users are to Obsidian since its syntax is unique. But I'm reasoning from first principles. Is there anyone out there that has used Obsidian extensively with plugins and has successfully migrated to any other tool? The main reason I don't vocally object to Obsidian is that it's a bootstrapped company, they're passionate about their product, and they don't have a need for ultra-rapid growth because they haven't taken any venture capital funding. They seem like good people with the right incentives.
  - braden-lk 2y ago
    Yeah, their approach to the business is great; I find it very inspiring and hope to do something similar with my own product if it’s financially feasible.
  - vunderba 2y ago
    I get what you're saying though I'm not sure I fully agree that it truly "locks you in" - principally because the plugins are, unlike Obsidian, source readable JS files. Meaning worst case scenario, you could just adapt these plugins to a different ecosystem. Markdown transformers/parsers are relatively easy to write. Case in point is I have a custom obsidian plugin that converts a markdown note (related attachments) into a HTML ready for a static site generator. I will agree this is likely beyond the "ken" of your average user though. But I guess it really depends on the plugins you use. On a quick glance I have Admonition, Another Quick Switcher, and Mousewheel Image Zoom installed. Most of these are "renderers" rather than extending the regular markdown format.
kkfx 2y ago
It's not enough: if you use Obsidian and you loose it yes, you can formally use your notes, but you miss the tool, or the workflow on them. We simply need FLOSS at all level, hw included, because we have already lost decades of progress due to pro-commerce choice of some.

Log_out_ 2y ago

Where some interface designer from hell redesigns shortcuts for gateway applications like firefox..

braden-lk 2y ago

Huge obsidian fan, but I do think it’s interesting how the plug-in ecosystem interacts with the open format idea. The plug-in system is a huge draw for many people, but you can bit rot your own vault by applying plugins that define their own syntaxes. The format is still technically open, but you can inadvertently create your own custom protocol that only works in one place. Probably a worthy trade off for the flexibility and Freedom, but it’s an illustrative example of the influence of human factors on software design.

rpdillon 2y ago
This is an extremely good point that I don't see mentioned often enough, and is the primary reason I have not settled on Markdown for my notes. Markdown is a pretty thin format, and for anything sophisticated you have to have some kind of extension, and that immediately locks you into that particular tool, even if that tool is open source. For what it's worth, I ended up using TiddlyWiki because it's completely open source and self-contained. And so it doesn't require the upgrade treadmill that other software does. But I'm just as locked-in to TiddlyWiki as other users are to Obsidian since its syntax is unique. But I'm reasoning from first principles. Is there anyone out there that has used Obsidian extensively with plugins and has successfully migrated to any other tool? The main reason I don't vocally object to Obsidian is that it's a bootstrapped company, they're passionate about their product, and they don't have a need for ultra-rapid growth because they haven't taken any venture capital funding. They seem like good people with the right incentives.
- braden-lk 2y ago
  Yeah, their approach to the business is great; I find it very inspiring and hope to do something similar with my own product if it’s financially feasible.
- vunderba 2y ago
  I get what you're saying though I'm not sure I fully agree that it truly "locks you in" - principally because the plugins are, unlike Obsidian, source readable JS files. Meaning worst case scenario, you could just adapt these plugins to a different ecosystem. Markdown transformers/parsers are relatively easy to write. Case in point is I have a custom obsidian plugin that converts a markdown note (related attachments) into a HTML ready for a static site generator. I will agree this is likely beyond the "ken" of your average user though. But I guess it really depends on the plugins you use. On a quick glance I have Admonition, Another Quick Switcher, and Mousewheel Image Zoom installed. Most of these are "renderers" rather than extending the regular markdown format.

kkfx 2y ago

It's not enough: if you use Obsidian and you loose it yes, you can formally use your notes, but you miss the tool, or the workflow on them. We simply need FLOSS at all level, hw included, because we have already lost decades of progress due to pro-commerce choice of some.