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Most people are of average intelligence. Suppose that -a few IQ points here or there makes little difference in one's aptitude in real-world tasks -we then mu

Most people are of average intelligence. Suppose that -a few IQ points here or there makes little difference in one's aptitude in real-world tasks -we then must accept that when most people think they are "dumb", there is some other effect going on such as: -lack of resources, hunger, mental distractions, illness, or motivating incentives.

JustinSkycak 2y ago
Are you suggesting that when a student is struggling in calculus class due to not knowing their algebra, their issue can somehow be resolved without them having to learn algebra?
- danans 2y ago
  I think they are suggesting that they might not have leaned algebra because of > lack of resources, hunger, mental distractions, illness, or motivating incentives
  - Jensson 2y ago
    Most people who are bad at math doesn't have those issues, lots of well off people are stupid. Edit: Also lots of people who lack many of those things still learn math very well. So it isn't a very good explanation. If you need optimal circumstances to learn then you have a problem.
    - tjoff 2y ago
      I'd argue motivation plays a much bigger role than intelligence.
      - Jensson 2y ago
        Everything I said is still right.
        tjoff 2y ago
        Hardly. Yes, you can contort your definition of intelligence to be one where you have to be able to overcome whatever personal struggles one might have. But you wouldn't be actually measuring intelligence. And creating an environment that allows for more people to thrive isn't catering to the stupid either.
        Jensson 2y ago
        Not sure what you are arguing, you didn't seem to read my post? I never said we shouldn't try to make more people succeed, or that everyone who fails are stupid.
      - danaris 2y ago
        The more I observe about people and how they learn and do things, the more I suspect that motivation plays a much bigger role than we think in intelligence.
        Ekaros 2y ago
        Looking at back to high school and then university. I fully believe I would have been capable of learning maths, electronics and so on... But I just did not care enough to put any actual work into the process. Still graduated. But well I really just did not care to put in effort. Thus lacked the motivation... Same can be said about any learning including languages. It really comes down to motivation, outside sufficient immersion.
      - ozim 2y ago
        I see it with people who "want to learn programming" but they fizzle out. That is not a single or 2 persons it is basically dozens of people whom I gave materials or tried to guide. It never is that they are too dumb to learn programming it is that they rather do something else than sitting in front of computer hunting down why their program doesn't compile. For math I got good enough to barely pass, for electronics I know basics, so I am "want to learn more math"/"want to learn more electronics" person but never get to really spend time on it. DevOps stuff, programming, databases, web frameworks is something I can fiddle with all day and not get bored, I can spend all day hunting that misconfig somewhere. On the face value all looks the same it is fiddling with stuff and solving puzzles, but somehow one type of puzzles is more interesting for me and since I do it a lot also much easier for me.
        hirvi74 2y ago
        I remember listening to a podcast where a psychiatrist was talking about something similar to what you are describing. Take something a person could desire like wanting to learn how to play the piano, for example. Often times, what people desire is not the learning part but the end result. People are fantasizing about drilling scales and chords for days on end. People are more likely to fantasize about creating music, playing music for the enjoyment of others, the praise, etc.. So, people tend to fizzle out when the reality does not meet the expectation. The brain tends to fantasize about all the good that something can bring, but the brain also tends to vastly underestimate the work required to achieve said goal.
        ozim 2y ago
        I think for programming it is mostly idea of "easy job" like sit behind the keyboard and get paid loads of money, as soon it turns out it is not sitting but quite exhausting mental gymnastics they are out. I also heard that loads of times: "get a real job" (maybe not exactly in those words but hey, that was the gist) then I got people who would try out some basic things for an hour or two feeling mentally exhausted. Not saying they were not capable or stupid - just that they underestimate how much taxing it would be for them to do something like programming for couple hours. It is easy for me but I am doing it for 10+ years professionally and good couple years while I was a kid.
    - danans 2y ago
      > lots of well off people are stupid Sure, but being well-off can also cause mental distractions and suboptimal motivations. Having resources, well-off parents can pay for help in addressing those problems, but they have to first recognize the problems, which is something they might be resistant to. In the extreme form of this (in terms of wealth, learning problems, denial thereof, and poor academic performance), you get very wealthy people paying/bribing for elite credentials and access for their children.
    - dleink 2y ago
      "Most people are bad at math" doesn't matter, "When someone has those issues they are more likely to be bad at math" is what we're talking about.
brigadier132 2y ago
I think a few iq points is actually much more impactful than you realize. 1 iq point boosts lifetime earnings by $50k. https://www.sebjenseb.net/p/how-profitable-is-embryo-selection https://www.sebjenseb.net/p/how-profitable-is-embryo-selecti...
- fuzzfactor 2y ago
  I would say the most valuable benefits would not be measured in currency. not my downvote btw
  - hnfong 2y ago
    Right, and there is a well-known correlation between IQ and life expectancy/mortality rate....
- max_ 2y ago
  If you used the same techniques used by IQ "research" peddlers to invest money in the stock market, choose startup founders or business managers — you would go bankrupt with a probability of 1
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - hnfong 2y ago
    That's just wrong, because if it's true I could do the exact reverse and earn money with probability of 1....
    - sudosysgen 2y ago
      Not really, you can't easily revert high volatility negative EV strategies, the transaction fees and interest will kill you.
tgv 2y ago
> lack of resources, hunger, mental distractions, illness, or motivating incentives Sure, that's a factor, but people can also simply be dumb. There's no quality equal for all humans, whether it's length, strength, weight, hair color, or intelligence, regardless how you measure it. The (rather superficial) article looks at it from the first person stance, but individuals are bad at estimating their own cognitive capacities.

JustinSkycak 2y ago

Are you suggesting that when a student is struggling in calculus class due to not knowing their algebra, their issue can somehow be resolved without them having to learn algebra?

danans 2y ago
I think they are suggesting that they might not have leaned algebra because of > lack of resources, hunger, mental distractions, illness, or motivating incentives
- Jensson 2y ago
  Most people who are bad at math doesn't have those issues, lots of well off people are stupid. Edit: Also lots of people who lack many of those things still learn math very well. So it isn't a very good explanation. If you need optimal circumstances to learn then you have a problem.
  - tjoff 2y ago
    I'd argue motivation plays a much bigger role than intelligence.
    - Jensson 2y ago
      Everything I said is still right.
      - tjoff 2y ago
        Hardly. Yes, you can contort your definition of intelligence to be one where you have to be able to overcome whatever personal struggles one might have. But you wouldn't be actually measuring intelligence. And creating an environment that allows for more people to thrive isn't catering to the stupid either.
        Jensson 2y ago
        Not sure what you are arguing, you didn't seem to read my post? I never said we shouldn't try to make more people succeed, or that everyone who fails are stupid.
    - danaris 2y ago
      The more I observe about people and how they learn and do things, the more I suspect that motivation plays a much bigger role than we think in intelligence.
      - Ekaros 2y ago
        Looking at back to high school and then university. I fully believe I would have been capable of learning maths, electronics and so on... But I just did not care enough to put any actual work into the process. Still graduated. But well I really just did not care to put in effort. Thus lacked the motivation... Same can be said about any learning including languages. It really comes down to motivation, outside sufficient immersion.
    - ozim 2y ago
      I see it with people who "want to learn programming" but they fizzle out. That is not a single or 2 persons it is basically dozens of people whom I gave materials or tried to guide. It never is that they are too dumb to learn programming it is that they rather do something else than sitting in front of computer hunting down why their program doesn't compile. For math I got good enough to barely pass, for electronics I know basics, so I am "want to learn more math"/"want to learn more electronics" person but never get to really spend time on it. DevOps stuff, programming, databases, web frameworks is something I can fiddle with all day and not get bored, I can spend all day hunting that misconfig somewhere. On the face value all looks the same it is fiddling with stuff and solving puzzles, but somehow one type of puzzles is more interesting for me and since I do it a lot also much easier for me.
      - hirvi74 2y ago
        I remember listening to a podcast where a psychiatrist was talking about something similar to what you are describing. Take something a person could desire like wanting to learn how to play the piano, for example. Often times, what people desire is not the learning part but the end result. People are fantasizing about drilling scales and chords for days on end. People are more likely to fantasize about creating music, playing music for the enjoyment of others, the praise, etc.. So, people tend to fizzle out when the reality does not meet the expectation. The brain tends to fantasize about all the good that something can bring, but the brain also tends to vastly underestimate the work required to achieve said goal.
        ozim 2y ago
        I think for programming it is mostly idea of "easy job" like sit behind the keyboard and get paid loads of money, as soon it turns out it is not sitting but quite exhausting mental gymnastics they are out. I also heard that loads of times: "get a real job" (maybe not exactly in those words but hey, that was the gist) then I got people who would try out some basic things for an hour or two feeling mentally exhausted. Not saying they were not capable or stupid - just that they underestimate how much taxing it would be for them to do something like programming for couple hours. It is easy for me but I am doing it for 10+ years professionally and good couple years while I was a kid.
  - danans 2y ago
    > lots of well off people are stupid Sure, but being well-off can also cause mental distractions and suboptimal motivations. Having resources, well-off parents can pay for help in addressing those problems, but they have to first recognize the problems, which is something they might be resistant to. In the extreme form of this (in terms of wealth, learning problems, denial thereof, and poor academic performance), you get very wealthy people paying/bribing for elite credentials and access for their children.
  - dleink 2y ago
    "Most people are bad at math" doesn't matter, "When someone has those issues they are more likely to be bad at math" is what we're talking about.

brigadier132 2y ago

I think a few iq points is actually much more impactful than you realize. 1 iq point boosts lifetime earnings by $50k. https://www.sebjenseb.net/p/how-profitable-is-embryo-selection https://www.sebjenseb.net/p/how-profitable-is-embryo-selecti...

fuzzfactor 2y ago
I would say the most valuable benefits would not be measured in currency. not my downvote btw
- hnfong 2y ago
  Right, and there is a well-known correlation between IQ and life expectancy/mortality rate....
max_ 2y ago
If you used the same techniques used by IQ "research" peddlers to invest money in the stock market, choose startup founders or business managers — you would go bankrupt with a probability of 1
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- hnfong 2y ago
  That's just wrong, because if it's true I could do the exact reverse and earn money with probability of 1....
  - sudosysgen 2y ago
    Not really, you can't easily revert high volatility negative EV strategies, the transaction fees and interest will kill you.

tgv 2y ago

> lack of resources, hunger, mental distractions, illness, or motivating incentives Sure, that's a factor, but people can also simply be dumb. There's no quality equal for all humans, whether it's length, strength, weight, hair color, or intelligence, regardless how you measure it. The (rather superficial) article looks at it from the first person stance, but individuals are bad at estimating their own cognitive capacities.