4 ms·

When the railroad was the internet, it was really the Silicon Valley of its day. Really makes you think.

hosh 2y ago
I had been thinking about looking at history from the lens of information technology. China is an interesting example, in that it was so well ahead of the curve until around 1700s. In the 1800s, when telegraphs were connecting the Western world together, the Qing dynasty China would not have been able to participate unless pictographs could be encoded as easily as letters (let alone the century of uprisings, rebellions, and civil war). But look at Tang Dynasty China. The Silk Road was a part of a global trade network reaching through the Middle East, and into Africa, along with maritime routes from India. It wasn’t just trade goods that travelled. Ideas — religious, cultural, technological, flowed along the network. But they travelled only as fast as trade goods. I think it is when information is able to flow faster than the physical items that, we might find some insights about what is going on now.
- dfedbeef 2y ago
  I have good news re: information flow rates
thephyber 2y ago
Categorical mistake. A rural community based on a single industry is always high risk for economic sustainability. Silicon Valley is has cities older than the USA, was grown by the gold rush, the early movie studios, the defense industry (plus some world class universities), NASA contractors, microelectronics, etc. The most recent iteration is software startups. Cities are always more resilient than isolated rural communities because they are inherently more diversified in both economy and workforce.
- mturmon 2y ago
  Excellent point. Longnow.org has a lot of material about the resilience of cities over very long time scales (like, millennia). Here’s an example on the resilience of cities versus corporations: https://longnow.org/seminars/02011/jul/25/why-cities-keep-growing-corporations-always-die-and-life-gets-faster/ https://longnow.org/seminars/02011/jul/25/why-cities-keep-gr... Another example, from a longnow podcast, is the tendency of people to think of themselves as citizens of a particular city (I’m from San Francisco, I’m from Venice, I’m from Helsinki), perhaps even more so than a state/province or a nationality in some cases.
samstave 2y ago
Maybe youre not familiar with Qwest Communications? Man does SV have stories to tell that will be lost to us old BOFH ilk: Qwest communications came about when the railroad realized they had rights to the easement lanes on either side of ALL their train tracks, that allowed them to basically do anything they wanted with that strip of land. So Qwest Communications was born to run fiber along all the tracks and built a huge fiber infra. There was a huge scandal with the telecom giants, and Qwest's CEO was convicted: --- Dossier: Qwest Communications Creation and Early Years - Qwest Communications was formed in 1996 as a spin-off from the Southern Pacific Railroad Company. The railroad company had been granted easement rights to lay fiber-optic cables along their tracks, which Qwest leveraged to build a massive fiber-optic network. Fiber-Optic Network Expansion - Qwest used the easement rights to lay fiber-optic cables along the railroad tracks, expanding their network across the western United States. This strategic move allowed Qwest to: - Reduce costs: By utilizing existing railroad easements, Qwest avoided the need to purchase or lease land for their fiber-optic cables. - Increase efficiency: The railroad tracks provided a direct route for fiber-optic cables, reducing the need for detours and minimizing signal degradation. Scandal and Conviction of CEO Joseph Nacchio - In 2005, Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio was convicted of insider trading and sentenced to six years in prison. The scandal involved Nacchio selling millions of dollars' worth of Qwest stock while aware of the company's financial struggles. Scale of Fiber Plant - Qwest built an extensive fiber-optic network, spanning over 190,000 miles across the United States. This massive infrastructure enabled Qwest to offer high-speed data and voice services to customers.
- fragmede 2y ago
  You missed the part where the Qwest refused to participate in illegal surveillance and the NSA destroyed the company for it. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/qwest-ceo-nsa-punished-qwest-refusing-participate-illegal-surveillance-pre-9-11 https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/qwest-ceo-nsa-punished...
  - samstave 2y ago
    Sorry - Yeah - actually I regret that as I have a humongous amount of /r/conspiracy history in my head - and I forgot that was the real reason.
tonymet 2y ago
And makes you humble.

hosh 2y ago

I had been thinking about looking at history from the lens of information technology. China is an interesting example, in that it was so well ahead of the curve until around 1700s. In the 1800s, when telegraphs were connecting the Western world together, the Qing dynasty China would not have been able to participate unless pictographs could be encoded as easily as letters (let alone the century of uprisings, rebellions, and civil war). But look at Tang Dynasty China. The Silk Road was a part of a global trade network reaching through the Middle East, and into Africa, along with maritime routes from India. It wasn’t just trade goods that travelled. Ideas — religious, cultural, technological, flowed along the network. But they travelled only as fast as trade goods. I think it is when information is able to flow faster than the physical items that, we might find some insights about what is going on now.

dfedbeef 2y ago
I have good news re: information flow rates

thephyber 2y ago

Categorical mistake. A rural community based on a single industry is always high risk for economic sustainability. Silicon Valley is has cities older than the USA, was grown by the gold rush, the early movie studios, the defense industry (plus some world class universities), NASA contractors, microelectronics, etc. The most recent iteration is software startups. Cities are always more resilient than isolated rural communities because they are inherently more diversified in both economy and workforce.

mturmon 2y ago
Excellent point. Longnow.org has a lot of material about the resilience of cities over very long time scales (like, millennia). Here’s an example on the resilience of cities versus corporations: https://longnow.org/seminars/02011/jul/25/why-cities-keep-growing-corporations-always-die-and-life-gets-faster/ https://longnow.org/seminars/02011/jul/25/why-cities-keep-gr... Another example, from a longnow podcast, is the tendency of people to think of themselves as citizens of a particular city (I’m from San Francisco, I’m from Venice, I’m from Helsinki), perhaps even more so than a state/province or a nationality in some cases.

samstave 2y ago

Maybe youre not familiar with Qwest Communications? Man does SV have stories to tell that will be lost to us old BOFH ilk: Qwest communications came about when the railroad realized they had rights to the easement lanes on either side of ALL their train tracks, that allowed them to basically do anything they wanted with that strip of land. So Qwest Communications was born to run fiber along all the tracks and built a huge fiber infra. There was a huge scandal with the telecom giants, and Qwest's CEO was convicted: --- Dossier: Qwest Communications Creation and Early Years - Qwest Communications was formed in 1996 as a spin-off from the Southern Pacific Railroad Company. The railroad company had been granted easement rights to lay fiber-optic cables along their tracks, which Qwest leveraged to build a massive fiber-optic network. Fiber-Optic Network Expansion - Qwest used the easement rights to lay fiber-optic cables along the railroad tracks, expanding their network across the western United States. This strategic move allowed Qwest to: - Reduce costs: By utilizing existing railroad easements, Qwest avoided the need to purchase or lease land for their fiber-optic cables. - Increase efficiency: The railroad tracks provided a direct route for fiber-optic cables, reducing the need for detours and minimizing signal degradation. Scandal and Conviction of CEO Joseph Nacchio - In 2005, Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio was convicted of insider trading and sentenced to six years in prison. The scandal involved Nacchio selling millions of dollars' worth of Qwest stock while aware of the company's financial struggles. Scale of Fiber Plant - Qwest built an extensive fiber-optic network, spanning over 190,000 miles across the United States. This massive infrastructure enabled Qwest to offer high-speed data and voice services to customers.

fragmede 2y ago
You missed the part where the Qwest refused to participate in illegal surveillance and the NSA destroyed the company for it. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/qwest-ceo-nsa-punished-qwest-refusing-participate-illegal-surveillance-pre-9-11 https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/qwest-ceo-nsa-punished...
- samstave 2y ago
  Sorry - Yeah - actually I regret that as I have a humongous amount of /r/conspiracy history in my head - and I forgot that was the real reason.

tonymet 2y ago

And makes you humble.