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Russia has been undermining democracies all over the world since puttin' came to power, sometimes from shadows sometimes not so much. US elections, any EU elect
by jajko 2y ago
Russia has been undermining democracies all over the world since puttin' came to power, sometimes from shadows sometimes not so much. US elections, any EU elections, heck my own country had or maybe still has a very healthy FSB/GRU community meddling into anything they can, and parts of political spectrum especially far right is literally on their payrolls. Seems a ridiculous claim, but all far right organizations in central/east Europe switched from focusing on their national sovereignty into uncritical open russia support within last decade, which goes directly against their core principles.
Russia (well its cleptocratic corrupt leadership) is as much afraid of democracy as US was of communism in 50s - seen as existential threat to 'russian way'. This doesn't represent opinion of population, but in such regime their opinion is largely irrelevant, and they know well to bow down and be quiet or else.
And Europe is top target - geographically closest, russia feels they should export their glory as far as they can, and also not so homogenous so feeding confrontations within block, ie by supporting folks like Orban or now also Fico.
- pydry 2y ago[flagged]
- paulryanrogers 2y agoAmerica has open dissent within its borders. Its record is mixed, and does not always prop up corrupt vassals.
- pydry 2y agoJulian Assange would like a word about exposing American war crimes.
- paulryanrogers 2y agoThat's one extreme example, Assange has literally leaked the raw footage and names of operatives. Plenty of people speak out and oppose the government in the US and have for a long time, all without going to jail. In Russia opposition leaders are jailed and die. Even ordinary citizens are jailed for speaking publicly. The US has also gone through several transfers of power replacing the head of state.
- pydry 2y agoHe leaked raw footage of a war crime. Thats it. Thats all. Did the US put the war criminals in prison? Fuck no. They put the guy who leaked the footage of the war crime in prison. Ive met plenty of Putin supporters and they downplay and excuse these kinds of abuses in exactly the same way you just did. It's two sides of the exact same coin.
- paulryanrogers 2y agoMy argument is that it's a false equivalence. Both are bad. Yet Assange breathes and is finally free. Navaly is dead. People who merely attended his funeral risked prison time.
- pydry 2y agoIt's a matter of degree, not overall nature. They're both imperial powers. Russia tends to be more brutal towards internal dissidents; America overthrows more democracies and is generally more invasion happy. Navalny was also pretty obviously a western stooge with western backing, made popular by western propaganda, pushing a pro western agenda, whereas Assange was just a dissident who exposed a war crime whom western imperialists tried to paint (really pathetically) as a Russian spy. It's like arguing over whether the crips or the bloods are different because one had a lower body count this year or something. The westerners who protest navalny or get incensed about Russia's human rights record remind me of the multitude of Soviets in the 1950s who used to protest Jim Crow and lynchings in America.
- perching_aix 2y agoGotta say though, between the kindergartener ass finger pointing game you manage to force people here into playing, this comment of yours reminded me of a Pink Guy song. In that, Pink Guy laments about how much he hates black people for hogging all the girls. But then the narrative slowly transitions towards this borderline homoerotic hymn about how effortlessly muscular they are, and how massive their dongs tend to be. Just a thought.
- keybored 2y agoPeople who complain about America secretly love it? Then I guess the American patriots have nothing to complain about. Just closeted and repressed patriotism.
- perching_aix 2y ago> People who complain about America secretly love it? No, people who complain about America like our guy did might. > Then I guess the (...) patriots have nothing to complain about. Do they ever?
- cmrdporcupine 2y agoThe most ridiculous whataboutism I've seen this week. ... it's almost like one could be opposed to both imperialisms? But also realize that Russia's variety is even worse ? Here's the key difference between American imperialism and Russian imperialism: when the US invaded Iraq (or Vietnam, or meddled in Nicaragua & El Salvador etc) hundreds of thousands took to the streets and actively opposed it and worked (unsuccessfully) to stop it. Where are the Russians doing the same about the war in Ukraine? Putin & Lavrov's bootlickers should try a new line of attack. This one got stale a long time ago.
- justinclift 2y ago> Where are the Russians doing the same about the war in Ukraine? Pretty sure a bunch of them got arrested early on for doing the same kind of protest stuff. Guessing they've all either left or decided to keep their heads down for safety?
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago... That was my point?
- justinclift 2y agoHeh, I should skim better then. ;)
- perching_aix 2y ago[flagged]
- akfhG 2y agoThere is no open Russia support. They just want to trade, just like with various highly questionable OPEC countries. No one in Germany wants to be occupied by Russia again. They said the same about Trump, yet Trump delivered more Javelins to Ukraine than Obama.